When people talk about a "stuffy" neck, what are they referring to? A short neck? TIA.

Short and thick.

Which is usually caused by a shoulder lacking layback.

that's 11 inches from what to what?

You can have a dog with a correct front and proper shoulder layback and still have a short thick(stuffy) neck. I have one here who is extremely short backed, in fact to a fault. But, she has a beautiful front with good shoulder layback.

Ok, so now we have to actually measure our dogs neck... please

So will a puppy with a stuffy neck be that way as an adult or can it change?

There are no missing vertebrae in short necks - all dogs have the same number. Some vertebrae are not seen and are hidden by the shoulder blades either because the blades set forward or because they are set high. Sometimes because they set high and forward. The neck can appear short and will function in a more restricted manner because of improperly set shoulder blades. The shoulder blades can also be set low and expose more of the vertebrae than they should. So yes, the lay back and lay in are responsible for 'short' necks and for 'long' ones although dog necks are technically the same number of vertebrae.

This is one of those posts that is so helpful to a newbie, even the 11 inches measurement gives us something to go by and compare to. Thanks to all for posting, I for one am learning.

I have thought my girl is a bit stuffy, her pup is a bit straight in the shoulder, out comes the tape measure to confirm what my eye is seeing.

My pup has good reach of neck right now but not a good lay back which you don't usually get that combo as much. We will see. 8 weeks and counting. Alot of pups under 8 weeks look to have stuffy necks so don't look to young and throw out.

Neck--The neck should be of proper length to allow the dog to retrieve game easily. It should be muscular and free from throatiness. The neck should rise strongly from the shoulders with a moderate arch. A short, thick neck or a "ewe" neck is incorrect.

I do not see a specific measurement in the breed standard.

Stuffy might be more about the thickness not necessarily about the vertabrae.

While it's true vertebrae aren't "missing", they can be shaped differently in individual dogs, so it's possible to have good layback with a shorter neck, especially if is accompanied by a shorter back. You may not know the answer until you get your hands on the dog.

All dogs should have the same number of vertebrae. The shoulder blade usually goes back to the same vertebrae in all dogs. Therefore, the layback of the shoulder is determined in part by the length of the vertebrae.

The vetebrae in the neck should be long, the veterbrae in the back should be medium, the vetebrae at the loin should be shorter, and the vertebrae at the croup should be shortest and fused. Note the gradual shortening from the head to the croup.

The shoulder layback is determined by both the length of the neck vertebrae and also the length of the upper arm and scapula which cause the shoulder joint to be forward.

Having said all that, one of the main purposes of shoulder layback is to allow extension of the front leg when moving. Many dogs look like they have good shoulder when stacked but you should always evaluate shoulders during trotting as well. The shoulder should "open" freely at the trot allowing for proper extension.

I'm not really understanding the whole 11 inches thing, either. I have a 90 pound stud and a 55 pound bitch, both are mature and both fit the standard very well. Now, how are they both going to have an 11 inch neck length considering one is almost twice the size as the other? They don't.

Go back and read neck 'lenghts' post. She/he is correct.

Neck Length, You are correct~ Stuffy neck=short/thick, not correct for our breed at all. When you put your hands on these dogs, they often have short rib cages/steep shoulders and no forechest really. But the illusion can be there but it's just a 'blob' sticking out in front there. Once your eye is trained to see this, it's easily picked out. We are supposed to have forechest and to have that in our breed, the shoulder blades are located further back.

The labrador is a square dog. Long neck/long rib cage/short loin...these three attributes go together.

Watch labrador side movement...realy watch it and you can easily see the incorrect stride in short neck dogs. They are choppy and cannot extend to the end of their nose, they fall short. There is no reach! Their motion is more up n down(watch the withers, it is easy to see.)

The 11 inches thing is a little weird to me. Seriously....you aren't measuring? They can't all be 11 inches even with the same number of vertebrae.

I agree with your assessment with one exception being movement. I had a dog (a specialty winning champion) years ago with a short neck but he probably had the best movment of any Labrador I have ever seen.

That's what I'm saying...lets say we have a large dog that's 25" height-wise at the shoulder and a bitch that's a small 21" at the shoulder. We'll also say that both are conformationally perfect(ok, I know there is no such thing as a perfect dog). There is going to be a big difference in bone size between the two animals even though they have the same number of vertebrae, therefore making the dog's neck longer than the bitch's. Saying all labradors should have an 11" neck is silly, because it isn't going to happen. Such a generalization might work in a very small breed, but in a breed that has such a varience in size it is simply not true. I hope the newbie that seemed to like the "all necks should be 11" statement read the rest of this thread because he/she would be doing themselves a huge disservice if they believed it. It's about the overall structure of the animal and how it's put together, not just having an 11" neck.