I received an email from a puppy buyer saying that their 4 year old boy has started seizing. While this is disturbing enough on it's own, they also say their vet refuses to medicate and told them most dogs that start seizing "at this age" die and that they should just put him down

I have tried to be very supportive and helpful in my responses so far. I told them about the research study and that I did not believe their vet is correct about him needing to be put to sleep.
I advised them they should be seeking a neurologist and that I thought meds would most lilely allow him to live a longer life, once they figure out what works for him.

I don't have any personal experience with medicating an epileptic dog so I'm at a loss as to what the protocol is from here as far as testing, drugs, when to medicate, etc.. There is so much contradicting information to be found on the internet.

I am hoping they will take my advice and seek out another opinion but they feel like their vet is the "best in the area".

Can anyone give me some advice to pass along and possibly a recommendation for a vet who may be better versed in treating epilepsy in the southern New Jersey area?

TIA

Can you take the dog back, contact the owner of a littermate, and send both samples (and those of the mother, if not both parents) in yourself?
I'm sure your vet will be able to work up the dog and guide you as far as medication.

Best of luck

I would absolutely take the dog back in a second. I haven't gone that far yet however because I don't want to approach it the wrong way. I am kind of trying to feel out what the owners are looking for, if anything before I start firing off emails about taking the dog back. I fear they may get offended and dismiss me all together and that could mean a sure death sentence for the dog. He is the most important thing here and I want to keep an open communication so I can do my best to help him.

First of all, this is one of those times when you ditch the email and pick up the phone. Talk to these people and sort out how they feel and what they want. Are they looking for an out? Well give them one, take him back. Are they looking for help? Have a list of suggestions ready when you call such as alternative vet suggestions. Tell them that you can collect information from other breeders if they wish, but most important LISTEN. Listen to them. Let them tell your their story. Let them share their emotions, wants, and needs. Your heart will guide you on your best course of action, but this is a time to step out from behind the computer.

we have a family pet, this is a BYB lab, started seizing a little over 2 years. vet says epilepsy and she takes a small dose of phenobarbital (sp?) every day and doesn't seize, nor does she have quality of life issues. she does everything she used to and that include hunting. she is prone to weight gain with the meds though and we have to take care with that.

Be supportive, be a good listener, but keep the following in mind:
First of all, there are many reasons for seizures in dogs besides epilepsy. This needs to be explored, particularly with the late onset of seizures (age 4).

Secondly, you are hearing this information about what the vet said filtered through the owners of this dog. They are lay people (not veterinary-trained or breeders), who are quite understandably emotional about their own dog. The information they are receiving from the vet can be overwhelming, and it's very easy to get some of the information wrong, or to have it be interpreted incorrectly.

I'd be willing to bet that the vet did not actually say: "most dogs that start seizing "at this age" die and that they should just put him down."
This makes no sense. Probably the vet made an observation that at age 4, they may be dealing with something other than simple epilepsy, and that it should be considered as serious, which is true. Sometimes pet owners do not want to face serious illness and put out the vibe to the veterinarian that it is beyond their capabilities to pursue what is wrong.
Can you talk to the vet and see if he or she would recommend additonal testing, either bloodwork, MRI, Catscan, or other? You as the breeder and also the owners of this dog need to know what the cause of the seizures is, and further diagnostics would be indicated to get any answers.
It has never been my experience that a veterinarian would recommend euthanasia without diagnostics, ever. My gut feeling is that the owners are not able to deal with this dog's condition, or possibly cannot afford further diagnostics, and I would offer yourself as an "out" for them in this situation, then you can do the diagnostics with your own vet.

I think you have been offered some very good advice. I would add just one more thing. Check Yahoo for canine epilepsy groups. Tell the owners they will learn a lot about managing a dog with seizures from the folks in these groups.

There is a wonderful email list that I would recommend. I am still a member even though I no longer have my precious Baby Benjamin.

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/

It's a great support group that are there for you practically 24/7.

We had our rescue boy who started having seizures at the ripe age of 2. We loved him for 3 additional years that we had with him. He had far more going on than just seizures though..but it was the seizures that ultimately got the best of him (and me) in the end.

The email list though is proof of how long and normal a life a dog can have with eplilepsy and overall, seizures. medications, potential triggers etc. A wealth of information. They'd prove your family's vet wrong in a heartbeat though.

Best thoughts for you and your puppy family!

Could it also be a thyroid issue?
What type of seizures are they?
Or has he had only one episode?
Good luck. I think the suggestion to call them and talk to them is a good one. You will get a much better feel for what the situation is that way.

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/InterviewDrDoddsAndJoanneCarson.htm

Scroll down a bit...

To the OP...ask the owner if their Veterinarian has done a complete work up including CBC,Chem screen,and blood lead level. Exposure to lead can cause seizures. Also liver disease can cause seizure activity. Then there are the Tick Borne diseases and Hypothyroidism. If any blood values are extremely elevated then an ultrasound may be in order as well as a consultation with a neurologist (if the owner can afford it ) Unfortunatley these are hard times for everyone. Best of luck with this unfortunate situation.

Please have this dog taken to another vet and also have this dog tested for tick born illnesses as some can cause siezures.

No, this dog does not need to be put down. I had a mixed breed lab a number of years ago and she was treated with medication (phenobarbital). It this were my dog I would have blood work run and a full thyroid panel and send it to Dr Dodds. You can e-mail Dr Dodds with any questions and she will answer you, you may want to ask her for a vet referal. Good links to more info:
http://itsfortheanimals.com/THYROID-ARTICLES.HTM

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/site_map.htm

also please look at this link in regards to diet:
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/healthy_diet.htm

I wish you good luck.

Redbank veterinary is full of specialists to include neurologists in NJ.
I had a friend - their dog was on PB from age 2 until 11 when he passed. He lived a great life, minimal seizures. You did get great info here-please do call this family and speak with them-it will be a comfort to them to hear your voice.

You need to tell us who this veterinarian is so we all stay farrr away. This vet needs a "check up from the neck up" (A/K/A having his head examined). Who euthanizes a dog that seizes? In today's world dogs on pheno, bromide, etc., can and do live a long life. When I say long I mean 12, 13, 14. Something is wrong here .. I just never heard of such a thing.

You have been given good advice as to what to test for.

Some dogs seize due to gluten intolerance. The gluten builds up in the brain and the seizure is the body's way of ridding itself of the gluten.

see www.dogtorj.com for info on this.

I pray you can talk to these people and get a second opinion and testing done on this dog.

I am sorry to hear that you are going through this. I have an epileptic lab. He started seizuring at 2 1/2 years of age. The seizures gradually became more frequent so we decided to put him on phenobarbitone. Well he will be 7 years old soon and his seizures have lessened to about one every six months. He lives a very normal happy life. We watch him carefully and see the warning signs but he is ok. The vet originally put him on a full dose but that doped him out too much so we dropped him down to half dose - which he has been on since 3 yrs of age. Good luck with the decision and the family who have the dog.

Marjorie, the vet IS at Redbank Animal hospital
I have never used them but have heard very mixed reviews from others who have, both good and very bad. I guess it depends on the day and who you get.

Thank you for all of your kind responses. I have asked the owners to call me or give me their number (I no longer have it) but they have not done so. I sent another very kind & understanding email after I read some of the posts here, offering to take him back if they need me to, among multiple other suggestions on how to deal with this very tough issue.
I have not heard back and it's been a few days now. I hope they do get back to me.

I appreciate all the suggestions and guidance. That is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.

I should probably also include some other information which I did withold initially from my original post. The information was however, given to the owners of this 4 year old dog as soon as they contacted me.
This dogs mother has seizures as well. Unfortunately, the seizure activity started after she was retired and spayed.
This is why in my initial post I was not questioning the validity of the diagnosis, just looking for information about managing it. I don't own the mother and she does not require medication because her seizures are not severe or frequent enough. Therefore, I still have no personal knowledge on how to manage a seizuring dog, so that's why I came here to this form.

To Information Seeker - please e-mail me privately. If you don't want to because of privacy I'll 50/50 understand. Let me help you and this dog. No dog should be euthanized over epilepsy/seizures unless the seizures are uncontrollable on meds and only after every combination has been tried.

I would find a good holistic vet and get another opinion as to treatment. Putting the dog down is extreme, if that is, in fact, what the vet told them.
Not surprising though, I think some of these vets need to be sent back to school.

I do not live in NJ so have no personal experience with Redbank. But do know of a person that had a PBGV who used them and they seemed to be wonderful. Her PBGV had seizures which could not be controlled with meds and he spent many days and nights at Redbank being treated by them trying to get a handle on his seizures and get his meds regulated. They eventually did put him down, but the vets seemed very proactive. They also knew about the epi study at Univ of Missouri and encouraged the owners to submit blood. I do not know which Dr specifically they saw.
Hope you find some help for this dog.
Julia

In the midst of someone's troubles, what Julia wrote is truly great news. RBVH apparently has had a change in policy. That the RBVH vet told the PVGV owners about the research and suggested they send blood is wonderful news. I have long felt if the veterinarians got behind the study, a test could be developed much, much sooner.