I have been "in Labs" for 15 years. I want to know where EXACTLY I can go to "study pedigrees" and see what faults certain bitches and dogs have produced so that I won't un-knowingly double up on these things.
I am willing to do the work. I spend hours on line looking at breeder's websites and studying the OFA site. I have a library of Labrador books (including the original Advanced Labrador Breeding and general breeding and show books that aren't Lab specific. I subscribe to the Lab Quaterly. I go to specialities as well as a few all breed shows. I suppose you could say that the well known breeder who sold me my foundation bitch years ago has been a mentor.
But nowhere have I *ever* seen faults listed that have been produced by any dog. I suppose I could figure it out if, for instance, elbows are not listed on the OFA site but what of TVD and maybe that would only show up with certain pedigrees together..or bad hocks or epilepsy?
This is an honest question. How would I learn about these terrible things that I might bring into my line?
Does "doing your homework" consist of making friends with breeders and then trying to be privy to the gossip they might share?

This is exactly what it entails. And to become trusted enough takes years. Good luck. You can't do this alone in your own yard. If you think you can, you will never be "in the know".

I totally relate and agree with you. Unfortunately, seems like we have to learn the hard way and make our own mistakes. The truth is, you can't say anything negative in this sport or you get the ax. I know of 2 breeders that are currently bickering because one tried to give the other advice, and now these long time friends are not speaking to each other.

You are so right. Even Toyota makes mistakes and I just purchased a 2010 PRUIS top of the line. Ellie

Everything is not always in black and white. Please keep an open mind. Go to dinner with a group of breeders and start interesting topics and then listen ... you will learn a lot.

phm - In the early eighties, we visited the Space Center in Florida. Some of the best scientific minds at work on cutting-edge technology, using ultra-tested equipment.

Yet, in 1986, at Mach 1.92 and at an altitude of 46,000 feet, Space Shuttle Challenger and its 7 crew members just didn't make it!

Using a small number of tools, we grope with health, conformation, natural aptitude, temperament and other breed-specific points. Chromosomes do their own thing for the most part (with the exeption of the disorders for which we have DNA tests) and even the most experienced breeders mess up on occasion. Maybe it's not that they don't want to share but simply because they know that, without the experience, you cannot put breeding choices into perspective. If it was a question of simple mathematics, they would get it right every time.

BTW a list of what stud dogs have to offer the breed would probably be a better road forward.

I've only been in this about 10 years yet I see and hear a lot. I find those that don't "know" about issues are people who aren't trusted with information because of their attitudes. I don't mean they have "bad attitudes" but instead are almost too "well meaning" and very naive yet they don't realize they are naive. They continuously say things like "I would NEVER breed anything but an OFA good or excellent" and "Ack I know someone who bred a bitch who produced a puppy with entropion - imagine breeding that bitch again!" and "Oh I would never breed to that stud dog because I know someone who got a puppy with an overbite!" These statement and the like tell a lot - it tells me that the person can't handle the "real truth" about how there are no clean lines and the dogs they currently own and breed have dogs in their pedigrees with a lot lot worse issues than what they are most afraid of and they can't see the "big picture". I don't know if this is your case but that is what I see most often with people who have been breeding for a number of years yet always seem surprised by a health issue they learn about coming from this dog or that.

So I don't know what advice to offer except that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. You probably need to start realizing that problems exist all around you and in your own dog's pedigrees. Maybe someone will start to confide in you if they know you can handle it.

This is an interesting topic. I can't remember the saying about how a person knows everything at age 20, starts to know that they don't know it all at thirty, and at 40 realizes what they don't know, and finally at 50 has some of the wisdom they could have used at age 20. Maybe someone could find the exact quote?

That's how I feel about the dog world. You need to come full circle to know that you are making the best decisions you are capable of making. There is no doubt that getting to know someone that will trust you with information is priceless. I don't like to consider it gossip, when the information is used in a constructive way and it doesn't get passed along improperly.

Maybe you could find someone that has similar tastes as yours, similar lines maybe. Having someone to think out loud with is so much a part of the whole breeder thing, to discuss what you see in the ring (at ringside, in a quiet way).

If that isn't a possiblity, then to be safe, I would try to use a stud that is older and has been used alot. There should be lots of breeders that you could email or talk on the phone with, that could share some info with you about their get out of a stud you like. Using a new boy is more risky, no matter what the pedigree.

There is a lot to be said about pedigrees. But, being that dogs are living animals, there is never proof that problems can arize. My feeling is that is why they have muliple puppies. In the wild, only a portion of the offspring make it to maturity. Every living being has the potential of producing a nonperfect offspring. The sooner some of the generation realize that these puppies are not a manufactured object. You can't start at the top of the ladder. You need to grow your way up and criticizing a stud dog or a bitch for an imperfect puppy is not the way to go. This goes for everything. Many go from stud to stud to stud looking for the perfect puppy. Keeping one after another and then placing it in the hope of the perfect dog. You need to work through the problems and keep hanging in there. There was a very famous stud dog who was a very common looking dog but he was the best producer of his time. You can test and test and test for almost everything, but, again, there is no perfect dog. There are those who are goinG to be nervous wrecks trying to get the perfect speciman.E

Yeah, breeder, I am still waiting for the jet takeoff maybe it will be to the Potomac. Lol. e

I think you do need to make friends with some breeders you admire and trust. Having lunch or helping at a show you will learn alot from them. If you get good mentors and you need more than one, you can ask, what do you know good or bad about this pedigree. Make note when you hear of problems, see if you hear it again with the same stud dog or lines.
Am not new but learn something everyday about the dogs. Will never know what some seem to know about the older pedigrees.