I would like to ask breeders with lots of experience in evaluating temperament to please share there opinion.


1) I was showing a male Labrador for someone. While walking the dog into the show the male proceeded to "go for" growl snarl and snap at another dog who was doing absolutely nothing to provoke it. This happened on a couple of different occasions with this same dog. I just couldn't believe this dogs behavior. FYI there were no bitches around. Is this acceptable Labrador temperament?


2) I had a line I was working with many years ago where the bitches were very aggressive towards each other. Several people who had bitches from these lines stated their bitches fought. I was told they fought because they weren't managed well. Is it poor management or poor temperament? Or a little of both?

3) What if a bitch who is in heat comes upon a puppy (not hers), the puppy starts playing with her and the bitch goes for the puppy? Is this acceptable Labrador temperament?

4) Do you think aggressive or fearful behavior can be bred out of a line?


Thanks for your opinions.

My hope is that the responses to my questions will allow us all to really think about what constitutes good temperament and remember how important it is.

I vote no for all of the above. I feel if you have to think about any questionable behavior in a Labrador it's wrong. Correct temperament is the most important part of our breed.

Second that. IMO labradors should not show any sign of agression.

Reply --

1 - No, this is not good lab behavior. All my boys run together and they have never met a lab they do not like. I once took 7 breeding males that did not live together to a national. Not one growl and they all ran together. I breed a male and then put him out with the others. The other males give him a good smell and probably have thoughts about why not me, but no growling and they all curl up together in the shade.

2 - it is poor temperament. When they are in heat they may get a little short tempered, but they should never fight. The one champion bitch that I had that started a fight was spayed and put in a pet home. Never bred.

3. It would depend on the age of the puppy and how agressive she was when she went for the puppy. A put down is one thing. A bleeding puppy is another. My alpha bitch would roll a puppy and press her into the ground with her chest. No teeth nor growling. The pup would get up and leave the alpha along after that.

4. Maybe, but it takes to long and is a very serious fault that I will not forgive. The lab temperament is one of the hall marks of our breed.

Hope that helps.

JanisG

Great answer JanisG. My boys stay together all the time. Love those breeders who tell you that you can't keep boys together to cover up the bad temperaments in their lines.

Are you able to keep the boys together when females are in heat?

Good thing some of the people that write on this forum aren't Labradors...they'd be neutered and out of the gene pool for sure!

1. NO
2. Poor Temperament
3. No
4. Aggressive maybe, would not even try. Better to scrap the line, and start over. Fear or no eye contact, NO.

The behaviors you are describing are very normal for many breeds and not indicative of a "bad temperament" for them. It's not "aggressive" but rather that of a dominant and impatient dog establishing themselves immediately. A Rottweiler male for example should be a force to be reckoned with at a dog show surrounded by other males and managed accordingly - a goofy tail wagging, lip licking Rottie male saying hello to all dogs all the time is not correct.

One of the qualities vital to our breed's standard is it's unique temperament. They are not like "most" dogs. Their temperament should be that of a dog that is extremely tolerant and adaptable. They should not exhibit dominance in the situations you described and should have a fuse a mile long.

Labradors should be very outgoing and very patient - period. Dominant dogs quick to snarl and snark at other dogs (dogs to dogs or bitches with bitches) in any situation should NOT be considered breeding quality in my opinion nor should dogs that collapse into a shaking puddle because they are so shy and timid.

This is something that has no gray area in my book. We owe it to ourselves, the families who purchase the majority of the dogs we produce, and most importantly the breed itself.

It's hard to tell if it's nature or nurture sometimes. All of my dogs (Labs, Havs, cocker, intact males, intact females, spayed females, neutered males) go out in the yard in one big group and it is a very peaceful group. Even when a female is in heat and I have to split the group (of course, she's not part of the group with intact males.) The intact males get along just fine. Even if I put a strange dog in the group they behave appropriately. Yet you pull one out and put it in a group of strangers and that could change. If a dog or bitch were aggressive in my presence or in my back yard I would remove that one from my breeding program. That includes being at shows and walking on a lead. Any other incidents I would carefully consider and determine what the situation was and what the dog's experience is. For example, it's not fair to expect an intact dog to behave like a gentleman if he rarely gets to smell a bitch in heat. Some behavior has to be taught, some behavior has to be un-learned. If the dog has good temperament genes then they will respond to the training and become trustworthy.

1. NO, that is not normal labrador temperament nor is it acceptable in anyway!!!


2. Possibly could be both especially in a situation where the owner is clearly not the alpha and has several bitches and they are left to their own devices and they have to establish their order.

3. Heat or no heat, a bitch has the right to put an obnoxious youngster in its place but 'never' blood shed or markings on the pup. Some can sound ferocious (males included) but there isn't a mark on that pup. That's the difference.

4. No, it can't be totally bred out. You'll keep getting pup(s) w/ it but you'll have some that are ok too.


Superior temperament is one of the hallmarks of our breed and should be consisently bred for like our other important traits. Proper temperament is one of the mainstays of our breed. The excuses so many have for why their dogs are snarky. Amazing what they can come up w/ it. I just heard one last weekend..."oh, he just wants to play!" I hadn't heard that one before! Noah was w/ me and one of the male labradors there(there were several of us standing around) was being quite snarky growling at trying to get at whatever other dog it could (shocked me because I knew the breeder) and Noah just ignored the dog(as did several of the others too) and looked at me as if to say, "hey, what's that dog's problem?" I'm sure many of you know that look and that is what they'd say if they could talk! LOL

I completely agree with JanisG, very well said. My boys also run together and love each other to death. Aggression is not something you want to deal with. Been there done that and it's terrible.

Labradors are the best and their easy going temperament is it's most endearing and hopefully recognizable trait. Having said that we all should seriously be aware or our dog handling practices. All dogs, including our beloved Labradors are prone to unpredictable behavior in stressful situations (dog shows, bitches in heat, introducing new dogs, overcrowding, ect...) It is easy to become careless when we are around such a truly benign and wonderful creature as the typical Labrador, but nothing should be taken for granted and all 'abnormal' behavior should be analyzed for HUMAN error. I'm not saying a Labrador should ever get a free pass on displaying atypical temperament-just that we should remember that Labradors are still canines and capable of 'normal' canine aggression-especially during moments of stress and should be given the respect to be handled accordingly.

2) I had a line I was working with many years ago where the bitches were very aggressive towards each other. Several people who had bitches from these lines stated their bitches fought. I was told they fought because they weren't managed well. Is it poor management or poor temperament? Or a little of both?

I do believe it is poor temperament. I also feel that poor management can make a simple snarl from a dominant bitch turn into an unnecessary confrontation if not managed correctly. My answer being a little of both.

I want to add one note here. Most people talk about an alpha bitch and what they are describing is not an alpha bitch.

An alpha bitch is not one that growls at other dogs or has to continually put others down. This is most likely a wanta-be alpha.

A true alpha only has to look at the other dogs and very, very rarely has to take action.

My one alpha bitch in 40+ years of breeding, could and would walk into a room full of untrained and rowdy dogs at the obedience class and cause every dog in the room to stop barking. Some would even lie down. If we walked out of the room, the dogs would jump up and start misbehaving.

I never heard her growl or bark at another dog. Her presence was enough. She would put a really rowdy puppy on the ground and hold them there with her chest for a few minutes. She only did this once and they left her alone after that.

A true alpha quietly controls with looks and body language. It is an amazing thing to see and I hope you all will be able to expereince it in your time with dogs.

JanisG

I agree with JanisG's description of an Alpha bitch. That is exactly how my alpha bitch does it. It is much more body language, it is quite a sight to watch. Although I am still her alpha.

As someone who works with many dogs and many breeds, I would not hazard a guess about temperament until I had seen with my own eyes multiple interactions with other dogs and with people and within environments.

Wow...

My answers are:

1) These are Labradors, it is unacceptable that they should show aggression to any other animal (Lab or anything else), nor to any person. Period. Ever.

2) These are Labradors, it is unacceptable that they should show aggression to any other animal (male/female/puppy whatever), nor to any person. Period. Ever.

3) These are Labradors, it is unacceptable that they should show aggression to any other animal (irregardless of heat cycle), nor to any person. Period. Ever.

4) Why would you want to try? You still have to place all the puppies that you produce...why ever breed something that is aggressive or fearful??? Those dogs ought to be spayed/neutered or put down, IMO. The LAST thing you need to do is allow them to procreate their temperments. Start fresh with better dogs, or throw in the towel, but don't produce more dogs with bad temperaments. Anyone can live with an ugly dog that is sweet, but NO ONE will live with a gorgeous dog that is NASTY very long...

Just my opinions after 29 years showing and breeding this breed that I adore...

Best,

Leslee Pope
Huntcrest

You did not answer it either Pot n Kettle. Duh!

I agree with the answers from JanisG, Sharon, and Leslee and that being a labradors correct temperament.

Here is another temperament-related question.

Is it within the range of normal for a Labrador bitch with a litter (like 3 to 5 weeks old, not newborns) to behave aggressively toward other familiar dogs kenneled (separately)in the same area? Or is this something that would tend to indicate temperament problems in other situations as well?

I think if you have to manage your dogs so as to avoid confrontation it's obvious you have issues with temperament.

I can run all my dogs and bitches together. I absolutely love my alpha bitch...she is exactly as Jan described. I have the greatest respect for how she keeps everyone in line without ever having to be over emotional or mean to anyone.

Just like my stud dogs with bitches in heat and being bred, my bitches with litters all get along.

When mom leaves the whelping box it is not unusal for another bitch to get in and make sure everyone is clean and happy. I even had one bitch who was a maiden bring her milk in so she could help out!

I have also had males climb in the box and lay down with the puppies until mom came back from going outside. When two puppies got out of the puppy run one day, I found them curled up next to two stud dogs. The boys did not move until I picked up the puppy and then they ran around like I had saved them from a fate worst than death! One had a puppy between his front legs and the other had the puppy curled up to his belly. There were other bitches and males in the big run, but the two boys took over.

The few times I have had two litters at one time, both bitches have chcked the other box and puppies. I can even switch puppies, if one bitch has too many puppies or one has more milk.

This is why I love labs - that labby temperament!!!

JanisG
A wanna-be-alpha
(it takes more than a look most times)

I had one of the true alpha bitches. A look was all it took. And I never felt I was alpha to her. We were a team.

Jan I think we have the same dogs :) I had two litters at the same time, one bitches milk didn't come in for 3 days, my other bitch fed everyone. I was so incredibly grateful that my bitches were so wonderful with each other. I have a photo of both moms in the box.
I have seen my stud dog lay by the box licking the puppies when they stick their heads out.

I just hope that people who are new to the breed read these testaments of temperament and learn no matter who is selling the dog (yes some big name breeders have poor temperament) and how beautiful the dog is, it's not a Labrador if it doesn't have wonderful biddable temperament.

Some breeders want to have a more outgoing showy labrador in the conformation ring. I have noticed breeders try to breed a more uppiddy labrador believing that they will get a more confident excited show dog. With this breeding strategy in mind, along with the more uppiddy labrador comes in an undesireable temperament that was not expected. Some show breeders are so competitive and want to win that they are willing to sacrifice the easy going labrador temperament for a more alert showy personality. What is perceived as a confident, showy temperament by some breeders is considered aggressive and not the true labrador temperament as described in the standard.

Breeding for the "showy" & flashy "up" ring presence is what happend to many Springers. These flshy dogs with the really "up" temperaments were winning big over the more sedate Springers and when people began to breed into the "up" lines they got the flashier temperaments. Along with the flashy attitudes came the seizure disorder known as "Springer Rage" syndrome.

Hmmm...well I have a lovely CH male that is very flashy, showy and also a dream to live with. He has a wonderful, calm temperment. I can run him with anyone and he is a wonderful house dog. In fact while we were waiting at Potomac for our turn to show he was laying on my feet enjoying watching everyone. Once we were up showing he was "On".

He comes from a very well known/long time breeder who truly rates temperment as her number one criteria....does not just give it lip service. Not all flashy show dogs have poor temperments...please be careful when you generalize.

I agree Well. My dogs are very showy. Why would they not be?! I have food in my hand and I am saying such nice things to them. unless they are moving!

Showy does not mean bad temperament. There was something else involved with the Springer rage.

JanisG

I was relating to what happened in Springers. So sorry if you mistook my comments for Labradors. There are many genetic links to traits which are unseen but are real and can come back to bite you in the end...no pun intended.

Myself and another exhibitor had our 6-9 month yellow bitch puppies attacked at Potomac by another one in that same class. A third lady told me she had been watching it go on, she was disgusted. And the person handling the very mean puppy did not say a word or apologize to either of us (these happened minutes apart)for the fact her dog had went at our dogs, and it was completely unprovoked, unless you count standing under the same tent as provoking. It really shocked me to see such nastiness coming from a puppy. My puppy thankfully just shook it off, apparently the other puppy had a worse experience than mine, but luckily, both pups came along and weren't totally traumatized. I myself couldn't get past that kind of temperament in a puppy.

You miss my point. My family has owned & showed springers for over 40 years. The popularity of a particlarly "showy" dog who cleanedup in the ring by virtue of his non-stop "flashiness" is widely regarded as being the springboard for the increase of "flashy" show attitudes. It was also attributed to the spread of Springer rage. Obviously, not every dog produced with this flashy attitude also had the rage syndrome, but many did and it has spread down through generations. Despite what you seem to believe, I never said the flashy attitude and springer rage were one and the same, I said that there are many traits which are genetically linked. We believe Springer rage is one. You can believe what you like.

And environment and education (poor or none) and stress account for a whole host of canine behaviors. Then, of course, there are the inconvenient facts that it is normal for an animal to protect itself when threatened and for an animal to find some animals unacceptable as companions.

Most of this thread simplifies dogs and expects more of them than we expect of humans. Genetics, although important, account for less than half of an animal's behavior.

"Trainer", I am trying to learn, can you cite reference for your comment "...genetics...account for less than half of an animals behavior..."? I realize this is a complex issue; "nurture vs nature", but I am curious as to your training background & education to make such an assertion.

No doubt, the importance of who is on the other end of the leash, as they say, (and their training) is KEY in management of the dog. IMO, however,-if someone really had a pup ringside who was showing this level of reactive behavior I would hope the breeder strongly evaluates the "worthiness" of this *itch as breeding stock (no matter her placement @ Potomac). I agree with the many (experienced) breeders who have posted here that temperament is the hallmark of this breed and non-negotiable. We need to also be aware that many of the pet buyers do not have the level of expertise to "manage" the reactive dog- can we really expect them to invest the time to develop these skills- I believe we need to stay true to temperament/mental soundness first and in this regard honor the legacy of this breed.

Also let's evaluate the level of the pet owners who are being sold puppies on open reg as breeding dogs for later by breeders. A pet owner does not go to breeder just because a bitch can have a litter. If many pet owner's do not have the expertise to deal with one reactive dog, how can the pet owner be placed with the responsibility of the decision of breeding or not breeding that reactive dog? How can the pet owner handle the responsibility of whelping, raising and evaluating litters, placing puppies and making educated decisions about the temperament about the puppies being placed? If breeders want to keep the kind, outgoing, tractable nature, eager to please and non-aggressive towards man or animal temperament in the breed, then breeders need to keep up their level of the responsibility and not sell pups on open regs to every tom, dick and harry who walk through their door.

I've had my dogs attacked for no reason at SEVERAL dog shows both in and out of the ring.
One so bad that my now 2 1/2 year old (beautiful of course) girl runs around with her tail down looking behind her when I show her because she was attacked on the go from behind.
Nice, thanks for ruining my lovely girl, idiot. This was when she was a 6-9. She is now 2 1/2.
None of my dogs have EVER fought back and they always have a look of bewilderment on their faces after it happens.
Had another dog attack not one but 3 of my dogs at 3 different dog shows PLUS I saw this dog attack other exhibitors dogs as well at multiple shows.
What a shame for our breed. I can't tell you the last time I went to any show and DIDN'T see an aggressive Labrador.

Previous post- "Also let's evaluate the level of the pet owners who are being sold puppies on open reg as breeding dogs for later by breeders. A pet owner does not go to breeder just because a bitch can have a litter. If many pet owner's do not have the expertise to deal with one reactive dog, how can the pet owner be placed with the responsibility of the decision of breeding or not breeding that reactive dog? How can the pet owner handle the responsibility of whelping, raising and evaluating litters, placing puppies and making educated decisions about the temperament about the puppies being placed? If breeders want to keep the kind, outgoing, tractable nature, eager to please and non-aggressive towards man or animal temperament in the breed, then breeders need to keep up their level of the responsibility and not sell pups on open regs to every tom, dick and harry who walk through their door."

Yes, evaluation of "pet-people" good, but, lets be careful not to generalize OR infer that a rise in temperament issues may be secondary to "pet-people with open registration" as a primary cause. Recall the old axiom, point one finger with three pointing back at you (or something close).

As one who purchased a *itch w/ an open registration, I feel a weighted responsibility to evaluate the "suitability" of breeding my girl. I feel the breeder who sold her to me, trusted me to make an informed choice. As someone new to this "hobby" I see it as my responsibility to seek mentorship from ethical and knowledgeable breeders AND study, observe, & learn as much as I can about the breed AND all that goes into being a good steward of these animals. Lets expand that to include working with my dogs in obedience and trying my hand at conformation (G*d help me, I hope I spelled that right). The decision to breed and all that goes into it is not one I would take lightly by any means.

When all is said and done, I believe I need to be make my choice about breeding MINDFULLY, after much consideration & consultation (as I think many experienced breeders do) and, in the process, be clear about what MY standards are (are they to breed "standard")? For me temperament/mental soundness will be # number.

I would HOPE that everyone who takes the responsibility to breed (& I believe many do), realize the importance of producing a mentally sound lab as number one.

I have a question to all the people who have had their dogs attacked at shows, did you report the incident and call a bench show review? If not, by choosing to ignore the problem you are helping to perpetuate it. Report the dogs and get then DQ'd!

[quote="Tom, Dick, and Harry"...]Previous post- "Also let's evaluate the level of the pet owners who are being sold puppies on open reg as breeding dogs for later by breeders. A pet owner does not go to breeder just because a bitch can have a litter. If many pet owner's do not have the expertise to deal with one reactive dog, how can the pet owner be placed with the responsibility of the decision of breeding or not breeding that reactive dog? How can the pet owner handle the responsibility of whelping, raising and evaluating litters, placing puppies and making educated decisions about the temperament about the puppies being placed? If breeders want to keep the kind, outgoing, tractable nature, eager to please and non-aggressive towards man or animal temperament in the breed, then breeders need to keep up their level of the responsibility and not sell pups on open regs to every tom, dick and harry who walk through their door."

Yes, evaluation of "pet-people" good, but, lets be careful not to generalize OR infer that a rise in temperament issues may be secondary to "pet-people with open registration" as a primary cause. Recall the old axiom, point one finger with three pointing back at you (or something close).

As one who purchased a *itch w/ an open registration, I feel a weighted responsibility to evaluate the "suitability" of breeding my girl. I feel the breeder who sold her to me, trusted me to make an informed choice. As someone new to this "hobby" I see it as my responsibility to seek mentorship from ethical and knowledgeable breeders AND study, observe, & learn as much as I can about the breed AND all that goes into being a good steward of these animals. Lets expand that to include working with my dogs in obedience and trying my hand at conformation (G*d help me, I hope I spelled that right). The decision to breed and all that goes into it is not one I would take lightly by any means.

When all is said and done, I believe I need to be make my choice about breeding MINDFULLY, after much consideration & consultation (as I think many experienced breeders do) and, in the process, be clear about what MY standards are (are they to breed "standard")? For me temperament/mental soundness will be # number.

I would HOPE that everyone who takes the responsibility to breed (& I believe many do), realize the importance of producing a mentally sound lab as number one.[/quote]

There are exceptions to everything. It is true there are the few new up and comers who are serious about getting started in the breed. Those are the ones that deserve a chance and I would consider placing a potential on an open registration with someone who shows they are sincere. We need to stay objective with new comers and accept they are the breeders of the future as some of us getting into our older years.

While certain breeders around are more concerned with filling up their pockets and they sell everything to any pet owner on an open registration. They are not screening and they are not being selective. They know they cannot keep and house 50 plus dogs so they sell all they can on breeding contracts with puppies owed back and keeping these dogs all available to themselves to keep selling more and more. IMO that is not caring for and perserving the breed for the future.

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
Assessment: This Labrador has an inappropriate temperament and should be eliminated from a breeding program.
I am hearing too many excuses for bad temperament lately. This is an inappropriate breed characteristic, just like a curly coat or prick ears would be!

My first bitch, 22 years ago, was alpha, and the most pleasant bitch you would ever imagine! I did not even know she was alpha, until in retrospect, I realized that it was exactly as Jan describes, she never had to prove herself, or lord it over anyone else, dogs would just fall into line around her. Her pack-mates, other dogs, in the ring, no one could touch her, yet she never growled or displayed obvious dominance. LOTS of confidence and leadership qualities, absolutely NO aggression.
Once we were walking at the showgrounds, and we passed by two English Mastiffs in a very low ex-pen enclosure. The very sight of this alpha bitch, walking peacefully past their enclosure, encited them to riot, and they pushed over their 3' ex-pen and attacked my bitch. She just calmly laid on her back, and the two Mastiffs gave up. They just walked away scratching their heads!
Puppies would behave instantly around Lilac, without her having to growl, frown, display, vocalize, nothing. She was always cheerful, never cross with man nor beast!
It is actually an insecure dog, or "wanna-be" leader that will get worked up about an alpha.
I have never had a Labrador like Lilac again, but she set the bar for behavior and class in my breeding program!

I really like the thoughtful responses by Janis, Nancy Boyle and trainer. It is all of the above. That being said, there are two other points I'd like to add. A dog with a solid temperament is SOLID no matter what. I took in an 8 y/o intact male whose life was hell in the home he shared with 4 other dogs. They attacked him, wouldn't let him eat, etc. Yet he came to me and was wonderful with all dogs, no matter what breed, age or sex. Absolutely solid temperament - good genes. He had also been socialized before he even left the breeder, so his life experiences helped him also.

Dog shows are extremely stressful environments. I've been to too many shows where the handler doesn't help their dog at all. They stand at the other end of the leash chatting with another handler, totally unaware of what is happening 4 feet away from them; that their dog might be getting nasty looks from another dog, so that what seems like an "unprovoked" response, is not really accurate. Let's be more aware of what's going on around us at shows and these episodes might be happening less. And remember that our primary responsibility to these wonderful animals is to keep them safe.

trainer 2, bravo to you for taking in an older dog like you did.

Thanks, trainer 2, for reminding us that we have a lot to do with our dog's behavior and over-all development. The responsibility is ours from the very beginning.

Quote above post: Thanks, trainer 2, for reminding us that we have a lot to do with our dog's behavior and over-all development. The responsibility is ours from the very beginning.

I don't see where trainer 2 said any of this in their post? There will always be those who keep making up excuses. The labrador temperament should be as it is described in some of the above posts by some very long time experienced breeders. An easy going temperament is just that from the start and from the selected dogs being used for breeding to pass on that temperament to their offspring.