The last few shows I have attended I am noted more tails in the air and with feathering like Setters. What is this ? Should they not be right off the back straight ? See big round fluffy tails also, out of proportion to the dog. Anyone want to talk tails or have a good picture of what they should look like.

I, for one, could not care about a high tail carriage. . . if this is what you mean. There are so many more important issues out there. But, it's the boys who usually have them and the young boys at that, those who are feeling their oats.

With that said, I neutered and placed a gorgeous fellow who carried his tail high at shows only and boy, it was up there. It was NOT an indication that he had a bad temperament. He was a doll. It was really sad for me. I am a small time breeder and knew that no one was going to use this lovely dog at stud because of his tail.

But, when big time people are exhibiting their high tail carriage dogs and are standing them at stud AND people are using them AND that tail is passed down to the next generation, what are they saying? Is high tail carriage the "new normal?"

These folks really have to carry the torch when it comes to these conformation problems. Sorry, it goes along with their greater visibility, in my humble opinion.

I wonder if it has anything to do with being excited or being on a lead. I have one at home that has beautiful tail carriage at home, but in the ring, the tail goes up. Is the lead too tight? How to correct that?

A somewhat high tail carriage is OK. Fluffy tails and feathering are not correct.

The tail is an extension of the spine. A SLIGHT rise of the tail is OK, but these tails that stick straight up in the air pointing at the shoulder blades are not correct. Attended a show last weekend and even the bitches had this type of tail. I think it looks terrible.

Watch the carriage on the go round and gaiting in the ring. If it's at back level, slightly above and up to no more than 2 o'clock, that's quite acceptable. Higher is not.

When grading your babies, you should want to see a slight croup to tail not straight off that back(that is set on too high)

We have so many incorrect coats today, unfortunately, thus why you are seeing feathering on haunches and tails and bottle brush tails abound with the open coats. The too long guard hair of today due to many doubling up on the long coat gene as well as introducing it into their lines. Some know it, some don't. The truly short/dense coat with wrapped tails when out of coat are somewhat a thing of the past anymore. While we still have it and it's correct many don't realize it. The dog isn't 'drippin' in coat. Sorta like 'tons' of bone we hear so many brag about too. So wrong

Good post I agree!

Yes, we do need to get back to the basics of breeding dense coated Labradors. Dripping in coat, esp the longer coated Labradors appeals to pet people because they may not totally understand our breed standard. We, as breeders should know better.

this made me laugh. Yes the lead is too tight and causes the tail to shoot straight up in the air!! Hahahahahaha

Bdr

I wonder if it has anything to do with being excited or being on a lead. I have one at home that has beautiful tail carriage at home, but in the ring, the tail goes up. Is the lead too tight? How to correct that?

These are the things that happen when people insist on breeding to personal taste instead of a standard.

It was bitches and dogs in the past few shows. Don't think the bitches were excited, think we all know the difference. Just makes you shake your head and wonder. One step forward, two steps back. And you get so many excuses when a breeder settles for things other than the standard.

Should the Labrador not run with his tail straight off his back, and with his head down and level?

The Labrador is a sporting dog not a terrier.

Dripping in coat is an idiom and is not meant as a literal description of a coat. It does not mean a long coat, but it is an expression used by breeders to describe a fully coated dog with a correct dense coat. Geeesh get with it.

I agree that the tail should come straight off the back; however, judges can only judge what is in the ring. What is worse, a high tail or a dippy topline? I watched a class of 2 Open chocolate dogs recently where one was roach-backed and the other had a very dippy topline. Neither moved well. What do you put up? Both of these dogs were bred by breeder judges and were out with handlers. If this is what a breeder judge is going to send out to an all breed show, it is no wonder some all breed judges have a hard time putting up what everyone will consider acceptable. Given a very nice entry, I can see not putting up a dog with a high tail. But if that were its only fault and it was showing against the 2 dogs I mentioned, I would forgive the tail carriage over the very poor structure (that even a handler could not disguise). I have been to many shows where people sit and complain about the faults of the dogs who win, when their own dogs had worse faults they were willing to overlook.

What is worse a high set or a low tail that that comes out of the rectum ? or a bad set of shoulders, elbows that are inline with the ears instead of the withers.. ...Yikes!!! A dog that holds his tail up when around in season Girls or a dog that has a bad set of shoulders that are damaging to the dogs skeletal system?

My question was, what do you think is happening with tail sets. Bitches and Dogs ? Have seen alot more lately. A few years back we did not see as many. But now they are being put up. We all know our dog has its own faults. Or we better. So not asking about toplines except to know the tail is an extension.

I think that I have seen worse years for tail carriages. I believe that once we set our minds on correcting something in this breed, give us a few years and we can make it better.

I did notice this year that there were quite a few dogs with very "un-Lab" tails. Too fluffy and soft and curled - not making a good rudder.

As said, probably not a perfect dog will be found. What I do is mark my catalog and note the qualities (good or bad) that I want to remember. Go with pedigrees with better tails.

I know that I bred to a dog once and got a few high tail carriages and come to find out - his father was like that, but I had never seen him.

Great explanation. Thanks.

Everyone likes a Labrador with good bone and coat. The problem is defining what is "good" - too many people use personal preference to define what is good rather than use the standard, which has resulted in longer coats, the extremely wavy coats, feathering, massive bone more appropriate for carting than retrieving, etc. Everyone says the Labrador is "head/coat/tail", yet we are seeing shorter muzzles, dishier stops, fleshier cheeks, very doggy heads in bitches, wavier, longer, more open coats and curlier, shorter tails. None of these attributes are correct per the standard, but a lot of people like it and will show to judges who like it and then sneer at those who aren't producing it. It is sad.

As far as tail carriage goes, I think the angle of the pelvis has more to do with it than tail set. I have a boy who has a low tail set yet carries his tail high and I believe it is because his pelvis is angled incorrectly. It certainly isn't because his tail set is too high.

Tail Set
Tail Carriage
Many people don't know the difference.
One is structural one is behavior.
A dog can have a perfect tail set which is good (structural) and carry it high (mental) which doesn't "look" good.
A dog can have a low tail set and carry it level, looks good but is not desired structurally and may be a fault according to the breed standard.
A dog can have a high tail set and carry it high, looks bad and is bad structurally.
There are far worse faults being put up both at specialties and at all-breeds shows, like cowhocked dogs, loose fronts, extremely short necks, Golden Retriever-like coats, even dogs with breed disqualifications such as way under the size limits, mostly at specialties by breeder judges that should know the standard and that should judge by it since it is a disqualification which is much, much worse than a fault or a dislike.

Either set or carried, I don't think they should be waving at the heavens. Somewhat off the back and not curved either, banana tail I think they call that. We do all think different.

When you get everything nice on a labrador and here's this tail that waves up and around on the move or standing, it totally ruins the picture, for me anyway.

Now to talk about tails and their set.
There are some things in this world that are difficult to discuss without illustrations and tail carriage is one of them because there are so few
photos of Labradors with bad tail carriage. Notice I did not say there are so few Labs with bad tail carriages

Tail carriage is related to tail set and that is genetic. I think many of us are so focused on the shape and length of the tail, we don't follow up
the tail to take note of how the tail comes off the body. We also may be confused about terminology relating the tail to the body from which it
extends.

First, what does the Standard say about the tail? Both the British/FCI and the American standards say the tail should not curl over the back. Both say
it "may" be carried gaily. The American standard goes a bit further (as it does in many aspects ) and says, "The tail should follow the topline in
repose or when in motion." Neither says what I have heard so often..... it should come off a level back. And there I think, is part of the problem.

The topline is an all encompassing description of that part of the dog that presents the line extending from the skull, along the neck, withers, back
and croup. Everyone talks about the tail coming off the back.....it does not. It is actually coming off the croup and the croup should not be totally level with the back (which should be level). The croup is that part of the top line from the top most point of the sacrum (the counterpoint of the scapula/wither)to the root of the tail. Since the sacrum sits slightly
above the line of the spine (as does the scapula in the front), the croup should slope slightly to the point of the spine's extension from the body
beyond the croup and the tail extends from that point, if proper, in a fairly level line or slight downward line when the dog is not excited. If
this configuration is correct, the dog, even at its most excited, should not be able to raise its tail above a one or two o'clock position.

Heather Wiles-Fone's book, The Ultimate Labrador has some of the best anatomical drawings of the Labrador Retiever of any book published. These drawings illustrate what I am trying to say. If you have the book, go find it and take a look. Then get your Labrador, have someone set them up. Stand behind them, hold the tail straight behind the dog and run your other hand along the spine. If there is not a slight descent (a small stair step, if you will) off the croup to the base of the tail, it is not properly set because the croup is not proper and that is probably due to an incorrect setof the sacrum.

Remember the function of the tail in all breeds....balance and counterbalance.
And in the Labrador that balance/counterbalance (steering assistance) is needed not just on land but in the water We talk of a Lab in nautical
terms...the forechest often referred to as the keel, well the tail is the rudder and the rudder is below the midline of the boat or ship. The tail of
the Labrador should not be at or on the top surface it should be set so that it falls below the back so it can assist the rear legs (which in truth have
little power in water) to turn the body, much like the propeller of a ship or outboard motor. Please do not think I am advocating low tail set. I am not.

If your Labrador's croup is proper the tail set will be proper, therefore the carriage will be proper. Oh, one more thing, part of the high tail
carriage is also the tail itself. A good Labrador tail should be, even if carried high, straight. If your Lab has a 'banana' or 'saber' tail, that
will exaggerate the poor tail carriage.

How do we get so out of wack? Where are these genes coming from? Who is breeding to wierdos?

Thank you for all of that valuable information Sherry. It is refreshing to hear from a breeder who is willing to educate instead of critize. Your explanation really gives a better understanding of the correct tailset and I will apply this knowledge to my own dogs and future breedings.

Have a stud who at times in his happiness to be showing will only on the move carry his tail a little slightly high [everything else is perfect and its not all the time, just at times depending on in season girls around or extra happy) and ALL his kids tails are perfect, straight off the back on the move, so he's not passing the happy tail at all! Don't be so quick to judge. I see many incorrect Labradors in the ring with way more serious structural faults than carrying a slightly higher off the back tail on the move!!!!
The dripping in coat is annoying, Labs should not look like golden retrievers or any other long hair breed - their coat should be SHORT and DENSE, not open or fluffy, coarse to the touch.

Sherry, thank you so very much for the wonderful explanation on this subject of the tail set. This type of information is the only reason I take my time to look at this forum. Great information, this is how us new show people learn from people like you.