I was wondering if I could get some information from people who have had experience with puppies having innocent or grade 1 heart murmurs at their litter exam. He was the only pup in the litter that had one, and my vet said he would most likely completely grow out of it, that he could come back in a week and it could be gone. This was on Tuesday. The new owners brought him to the vet today and their vet said that she would call it grade 1/possibly 2, but was also very optimistic that he would grow out of it. I am worried and was wondering if anyone has had experience with grade one/two or what my vet called "likely innocent" heart murmur. Thank you.

Yes, I had one, never went away...it was detected at about 12 weeks... he went to a nice pet home. Didnt seem to ever be effected that I know of, was a very active pet.

We had 1 murmur 11 years back, once & it was gone in 2 to 2.5 weeks. It prolly was not a true heart murmur I was later told. It was considered a Grade 1 at just 8 weeks, completely disappeared by a 10.5 week check up. The dog is over 11 today and in excellent health, touch wood.

If you're in doubt, take the puppy to a cardiologist for an echo or find a cardiac clinic nearby soon. There's a bunch of 'em coming up.

What side of the heart is it on? If it's the right side, think TVD. This is what I've been told.
If the left, prolly innocent, no biggie.

Had a right sided murmur (grade 1) show up at 9 weeks, by 16 weeks was grade 2. Went to cardiologist who followed up with an echo, which confirmed TVD. Good news is my puppy will live a full, happy life as a companion!

I had a similar situation. I will never let a puppy go home with a heart murmur without being checked by a cardiologist again. The "grade 1" turned out to be severe TVD.

Note - my vet was very upfront regarding heart murmurs. Most vets cannot hear a real grade 1, they may hear 50% of grade 2's, grade 3, 4 and 5 are the ones they can detect. So, if a vet detects a "grade 1" you should assume the cardiologist will grade it higher. General vets are not specialist and therefore their ears simply aren't trained to hear as well as cardiologist.

I hope your puppy does indeed have an "innocent" murmur.

I'm really glad to see TVD discussed more openly, especially in pups. I hope that isn't the case with this puppy. It might be a benign murmur type sound.

If the murmur doesn't disappear in a 2 week check up, I would see a cardiologist and have him or her echo doppler the pup for a true reading. Even a cardiologist can miss a murmur and in some cases, it does not exist even in pups with TVD. JMHO.

Were the parents cleared by auscultation or echo doppler? If so, which type of exam?

It's nice to hear he is able to live life normally in a good pet home as that isn't always the case.

I am having all of my breeding dogs echo dopplered, almost finished with all of them. I found some good echo clinics on a different board for myself and breeder friends.

Both veterinarians that this puppy has now seen (mine and the families) are optimistic that he will grow out of this murmur, but we as breeders of course worry no matter what, which I am!
I am praying that it goes away by the next visit, if it doesn't, the vet is going to do an ultrasound on it, so hopefully it is just an innocent murmur.

If you are a breeder, don't you want to know exactly what is going on? I would get that puppy to a cardiologist pronto, for an echo. Just sitting around hoping it will go away will not help you move down the road as a successful breeder. Bite the bullet and do the right thing for your breeding program! BTW you don't mention that either parent was echo'd, all the more reason to get this puppy done.

Oh and I think it is wrong to send a murmur puppy home with a family until it has been echo'd. You could be one of the lucky breeders that produces a puppy with an innocent murmur but what if it isn't????

No reply makes me believe the answer is no. All the more reason to echo the pup. Even if both parents were clear by echo, there's always the chance of TVD. It's more so if there has been no cardiac testing of the parents depending on the pedigree. Why not rule it out by echo and why place a pup until you know for sure what this is?

I'm not giving you a hard time, you'll worry more until you know for sure so get it over with. As for your own vet doing an ultrasound, I wouldn't allow a GP to do it, I would head to a cardiologist.

I am all in favor of cardiac clearances on labs, but the top producer of TVD right now has an echo clearance. It is better to avoid known producers than to get clearances. Non affected clearances really mean nothing, other than you dog is not affected.

All this pointing fingers of " top producer of TVD right now has an echo clearance" and avoiding pedigrees.

How is one really to find out this info, as no one is talking

Maybe we should play "20 Questions" to find out who that stud dog is? Seriously - how is anyone supposed to find this information out if no one speaks up???

On the original topic - I had a litter that had 3 puppies with grade 1/2 to 1 heart murmurs. I had never had this before, so ran right to the heart Dr. and had them done. They were all clear - just juvenile murmurs. They were all fine at about 4 to 6 months old. The bitch threw another pup in her second litter that was the same and no problem. You can Google the juvenile heart murmur and get the info to help you decide what to do.

There are a couple that are being called current producers. One is, one is not. There are some dogs in the pedigree of the dog that has that should give breeders a heads up. It doesn't. They want the looks and don't worry until it happens to them.

I would not put that information on a public board so *everyone* knows.

Speak to breeders you know, then take what you hear with a grain of salt. Research pedigrees, we all know where it began.

And this helps us how??? Being closed-mouthed about an issue that you know a dog has or is producing regularly is counter-productive to the entire breed. I'm not talking rumors, but facts about dogs, both male and female. I HAVE talked to many breeders about TVD and I get as many responses as I have breeders I've talked to.

Listen brdr, this is neither the time nor place for discussion about certain dogs. This is a public forum! How would you feel if someone said something about your dog?
You obviously are newer to the breed and need to learn to be quiet and listen.

Sorry, I am not "newer" to the breed, and have in fact produced a TVD puppy years ago - found out about the suspicious grandsire after puppies went home! The problem is we are too quiet and no one is willing to part with their precious stud fees to better the health of the breed!

Then discuss it with breeders OFF this list! Man, you've got a bad attitude. Why is it always the stud dog? What about the bitch lines?

I sure hope you've at the least echo'd what you have after producing pups with TVD and do appropriate pedigree research.

We as breeders aren't too quiet, obviously no one wants to discuss this topic with you. You're speaking about a *suspicious grandsire* and I'm glad you're not throwing his name around. This isn't the place for it!

Regardless, it's not going to happen on this public list unless you want to ruin having this list for all of us.

Let us hope for a genetic test, until then all we can do is echo, do pedigree research and breed responsibly.

Not so. That is an awful thing to say about ALL of us stud dog owners. Don't assume ALL of us are only about the dollar. There are some great breeders amoungst us.

BTW, the so called "producer" had a CLEAR color doppler himself!!!