Has anyone raised a litter on Orijen? This is my first litter using it and I think it might be TOO rich? They have nasty DARK brown stools. Nasty..... They seems ot really like the food but not sure if I can keep up with the mess.

I have; I've used Orijen All-breed formula - I'm not a Large Breed food fan. Had no problems with stools. Dam was also on Orijen adult; I don't know if there would be any correlation.

I wanted this food to work for my puppies so badly! I really think this is an exceptional food but for my litters it was a nightmare. I just could not get a solid stool with this food, and had cut back their portions to the point that they started losing weight before I gave up. Once I switched to Pro Plan I had absolutely perfect stools. Same thing with the next litter... Some people feed it without a problem but it looks like I just can't use this food for my puppies.

I have been feeding the Orijen Puppy for about 4 years with great results. The last 2 litters the stools have not been as good. I wonder if they made a change in the past year or so.

I did one litter on regular puppy and kept them on that then switched to Adult when they were ready and the next on Large breed, the large breed litter had some soft stools at first,(I added more probitoics and some enzymes for a bit) but kept the weight on whereas the other litter was normal from day one. I switched the puppy I kept onto 6Fish at 8 weeks and her stools are totally normal and she's gained weight just fine.

Look at the ingredients, compare them to any other food and you might see why you're having this problem. I don't want to finger point at a food but it has a few things I don't like about it so I don't ever use it. I tried once, I also got that type of stool in pups and adults that were moving over to it very slowly.

I won't attempt to feed it to pups or adults ever again. I think feeding it to pups is much worse than to adults, especially for a lengthy time period. JMHO.

Had 5 litters on it over the past 5 years- all my adults are on the 6 fish formula and I use the large breed puppy. The only time I had loose stools in pups was a litter that had an underlying problem of giardia from eating too much snow that had gone undiagnosed. I had been doing regular stool checks to find out what was up, but it took an Antech test to find it. I treated the giardia and stools were fine. They will have darker stools than from a food with fillers, but if it is that dark, black or tarry, I would be looking for hookworm. Have your vet do an in depth stool check.

Orijen has fillers just like all dry food, don't be fooled.

There is a difference between fillers with no nutrient value and binders that do. Potato is highly digestable while corn gluten meal is not,nor is Brewers rice, Capiche!!!????!!

Very true. They use fresh ingredients- meats certified to have no growth hormones, all human grade ingredients, not by-products of other trash. No corn gluten, beet pulp, soy, wheat or other allergans. Read their white paper at http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/ORIJEN_White_Paper.pdf
I've brought in some pretty unhealthy dogs through the years and have turned them around quickly on the Orijen food line. Healthy eyes, ears, coats. With the breeders program of buy 6, get 1 the price is dramatically dropped and I don't have to collect any weight circles or bags to get my free bag.

Looks like someone should know what their talking about before giving out nutritional advice and do read something besides dogfoodanalysis.

Brewers rice is broken rice, it is a milled rice kernel that is 1/4 to 1/2 the size of a full kernel and is a byproduct of rice milling. AAFCO definition- Brewers rice is the small milled fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice.

Broken Rice. The kernel of rice can become cracked in the field, during the drying process, or during the milling process. Cracks are usually caused by moisture migrating too quickly within the kernel (drying too fast, or moisture being added back to a dry kernel). Often these cracks cause the kernels to break during milling and so broken rice is generated. The percentage of broken kernels (relative to total milled rice) generated during milling usually ranges from 12% to 24% in the U.S. Most brokens are removed during the milling process to less than 4% in order to give the consumer a high quality rice. Broken rice tends to get mushy during cooking and makes a poor quality table rice. There are different sizes of broken kernels. With long grain rice in the south brokens are often separated into different sizes. From largest to small they are called; second heads, screenings, and brewers. In California, where the kernel is smaller to begin with, the brokens kernels are only separated into second heads and brewers.

In the past most broken rice in the U.S. went to the beer industry. Today, most of the rice going into beer is now whole kernel. The dog food industry uses the majority of the broken rice.
They tend to start with the lower quality brewers rice and then move into the more expensive screenings and second heads as needed. The rice flour industry is growing and tends to use the higher quality sorted second heads and screenings. The beer industry still takes some of the higher quality second heads. Some brokens are now being exported to Japan out of California.
http://www.sagevfoods.com/MainPages/Rice101/Types.htm#broken

Broken rice gets soft and mushy when cooked. From a nutritional standpoint, brokens are the same as whole grain. But the texture is poor and brokens tend to have more bran, which affects flavor.http://www.sagevfoods.com/MainPages/Rice101/Quality.htm

Corn Gluten Meal
Why is corn gluten meal used in petfoods? Most of the available CGM contains 60% protein. Thus, it serves a purpose as an economical high-protein ingredient. On a cost-per-unit protein basis, CGM costs about 10% less than petfood-grade poultry by-product meal, but about 20% more than soybean meal. It is a reasonable source of methionine, but low in lysine and arginine. Because of this, CGM is typically paired or complemented with another protein source. Additionally, when compared to other proteins, CGM has a low level of ash (< 2.0%) and a full complement of vitamins and xanthophylls such as zeaxanthin and lutein.

Case, et al. (1990) reported that when fed to puppies, the nutrient availability of CGM was superior to poultry by-product meal. In general terms, protein digestibility of CGM in dogs is high (avg. 88%; Yamka, et al., 2004). Relative to other studies, this ranks CGM even with poultry meal and better than soybean meal.
Recent work in the dog has tried to determine if an animal-based protein is better than or different from vegetable proteins. Corn gluten meal is often the reference vegetable protein used in these studies.
http://www.petfoodindustry.com/ViewArticle.aspx?id=12808

Capiche!!!????!!

The problem with those products is that they are a cheap low quality protein source, and the gluten will break the fine cilia in the digestive tract, I guess you would want that for your dog but I don't for mine.

Also many people have dogs that have allergies to those ingredients and can't feed them. My very first dog couldn't eat corn and rice is becoming one of the leading allergens in food as well.
If your dogs do fine on Proplan and you love it by all means keep feeding it, I used to feed California Natural for many years, my dogs did well and looked great, but I noticed a huge difference when I switched off of that to the Orijen and you can't say California Natural isn't a great food. There are other breeders want a better quality food for their dogs and price isn't a deciding factor.

It's like eating only McDonalds, sure it tastes good and it's food, but are you really eating a food that will keep you healthier in the long run or just one to subsist by.

Also I don't see where you answered the OP's question, have you raised any litters on Orijen????If you did you would notice that they have a more even rate of growth.

"Also I don't see where you answered the OP's question, have you raised any litters on Orijen????If you did you would notice that they have a more even rate of growth."

Not necessarily! The litters I have tried to raise on Orijen grew like crap. They had diarrhea until I switched them off that stuff and were losing weight. Stool samples were clear. It was the food. Most puppies cannot tolerate it.

As for the whole gluten damaging the intestinal cilia - that would only be the case if you or your dog had ciliac's disease. Normal intestinal cilia can handle gluten without any problem. To say differently is insinuating that nobody should eat gluten and I'm sure (unless you suffer from ciliac's disease) that you have not cut out all gluten from your own diet.

Come on people. We eat corn, rice, wheat, meat, etc. Who really cares what protein or carbohydrate someone else is feeding their dog? If the dog is healthy and happy then what is the problem? This thread was about feeding Orijen to puppies. For most people it is too rich and causes major digestive problems. For some it works great.

I really don't think that you can paint all puppies with that broad a brush; I see very few people replying here whose puppies have had problems with the Orijen. I've seen many more threads where people have had problems feeding other foods to their puppies.

I also don't see where people are complaining about major digestive problems with their dogs when feeding Orijen. Ones who are using it love it; those who are not, don't. If it doesn't work for you or your dogs, don't feed it. Simple as that. Maybe those who have stool problems in puppies aren't feeding correctly - maybe feeding too much? You feed way less with Orijen.

Those of us who use Orijen with our litters without incident like the way our pups grow, plain and simple. Check Orijen's website, this page
http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/CPF-Pet_Food_of_the_Year.pdf - I don't think an independent research body, U.S. based, authorized by 3 governments over 2 continents, would want to be wrong.

Ask food suppliers; I doubt that people are really having digestive problems to the magnitude that you state in their dogs, with a food that suppliers are hard pressed to keep in stock. It flies off the shelves.

Once again, do your research and stop being a victim of marketing and perpetuating myths.

Corn does not have gluten in it! Look here: Gluten Free Ingredients. The leading food allergens in dogs are wheat, beef and dairy.

Once a food is broken down to amino acids the amino acids are the same whether from plant or animal. Corn may not have a complete amino acid profile but when used with meat corn provides a good source of protein and what's wrong with less expensive? Your high end protein foods with more protein than your dog needs ends up on your lawn too but costs more.

Carbohydrates are used in pet food primarily to provide energy. Energy is required for the central nervous system, normal and high levels of physical activity and is also needed when anabolic activities like gestation, lactation and growth are proceeding at a high rate. With little or no dietary carbohydrates available there is added strain on fat and protein. This extra burden on fats and proteins can cause serious problems at birthing time.(1) Judicious use of carbohydrates in a meat meal based formula, i.e. corn, not listed first on the ingredient panel is a nutritionally sound and healthy use of corn and other quality carbohydrates.

(1) Hypoglycemia prior to whelping, reduced plasma concentrations, reduced number of live births, lethargy, reduced mothering ability, fetal abnormalities, embryo resorption and reduced milk production.

It Is Not A Filler...
While we believe in meat meal based diets, meaning meat meal should be listed first on the ingredient panel, corn makes an important nutritional contribution to the formula, as noted above; fillers, such as wheat mids and peanut hulls, do not.

Rarely Does Corn Cause Allergies...
A complete literature review shows that corn is rarely incriminated as causing allergies. "Small Animal Clinical Nutrition" addresses this twice: "There have been only six confirmed cases of allergy to corn in dogs reported in the veterinary literature out of 253 total cases." "Corn is a nutritionally superior grain compared with others used in pet foods because it contains a balance of nutrients not found in other grains. Corn provides a highly available source of complex carbohydrates and substantial quantities of linoleic acid, an essential fatty acid important for healthy skin. Corn also provides essential amino acids and fiber. In a survey of veterinary dermatologists, corn was not listed among the ingredients most often suspected to cause food allergies. A review of over 200 confirmed canine cases of food allergy in the veterinary literature revealed only three were caused by corn."

A Very Digestible Carbohydrate...
One pet food company that does not have ready access to corn states, rather crudely, that look how corn comes out after we eat corn on the cob and therefore it can't be very digestible. This company knows full well that corn is ground very finely before it is added to the pet food formula. According to "Small Animal Clinical Nutrition", 4th Edition, "Several reports (3) indicate that dogs and cats readily digest starches in commercial pet foods. In studies, dogs were fed foods in which 30 to 57% of the food came from extruded corn, barley, rice or oats. The starch was nearly 100% digested in the small intestine."

It is difficult to do the math because some base numbers are not available, but probably only one dog out of several hundred thousand dogs are likely to be allergic to corn when used correctly in a Super Premium, meat meal-based diet. With an ingredient that quality research shows to be an excellent ingredient, why would you not want to feed it as the carbohydrate component in the diet?

Sources: The information above was drawn from fifteen research studies as listed in Small Animal Clinical Nutrition 4th Edition.

The Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog. Wendy Volhard and her husband, Jack, train dogs and conduct "Camps" on dog training, nutrition, and holistic care. Howell Book House recently published a second edition of "The Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog". Volhard regards carbohydrates as crucial for a dog's health, and utilizes grains as the major provider of carbohydrates.


FWIW, I wouldn't feed a limited ingredient diet (including CN) to any dog long term unless it was necessary. These are bland diets that are too heavy in carbs IMO and highly supplemented.

Orijen isn't cooked at the temperatures that most dog foods are and transportation/storage that isn't optimum can cause issues with the food. A lot of people are having problems with this food. It may be flying off the shelves but they are a small company and their ingredient sources can't always keep up. When they run out of fresh caught salmon they use farmed raised salmon! IMO there is nothing worse than farmed raised salmon.

As the popularity of this food increases the quality will go down. My dogs were doing fine on Orijen with no problems whatsoever. After going through a few large bags the dogs started acting less interested in the food then one day 1/2 way through a large bag no one would eat it and my dogs will eat anything. I trust my dogs elevated senses that something is not right with the food and I stopped feeding it.

OK, WHO are all these people having problems with this food? Popularity doesn't necessarily equal decrease in quality ~ this isn't a Purina or an Iams product, ya know; and please share where you get the information that they use farmed fish. NOWHERE could I find this stated???

Not so sure why you think this company is "small potatoes". You apparently underestimate the amount of wildlife abounding in Canada.....
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/business/story.html?id=d3e7c070-492d-44df-b945-59e40b3a4d97

Not sure why you feel you have to trash this food; if ya don't like it, if it doesn't work for your dogs, don't use it. And if you feel that something was "off" with some you had ~ you said yourself that problems can arise from transport/storage. Maybe you should talk to the place you bought it from. Where I buy, it's so fresh that the BB date is 18 months away.

Orijen had it in their faq section about the farmed fish but it has recently been removed. They sometimes have problems with salmon availability, it may be seasonal I'm not sure, I wish I copied the page. Call them and ask.

We have used Orijen Lrg Breed Puppy on 3 litters and love it. No issues with stools and pups have grown very well. Every dog responds differently so results will vary from kennel to kennel. We have one dog here that can't tolerate Orijen at all so she is fed raw.