I have a puppy from my current litter that is really looking nice. I am already keeping a pup from the litter, but would like to be able to use this pup in the future if he turns out like he is looking he will.

The family that is going to be taking him said that they would be ok co-owning him. They have never had a purebred lab before (only mixed breeds)They have no interest in showing him, all they want is a pet.

I have never co-owned before, what has been the experience? Do you charge full price for the pup? Do you set up visitations with the pup, and enroll him in classes yourself since they have no interest? They live within 45 minutes of me so I will be able to keep an eye on him

No two co-ownersships are the same. You need to make a deal that works for both of you, and PUT IT IN WRITING! Who will train him? Who will show him, and who will pay for that? Who will pay for clearances? Who will get the stud fee? Who will "own" him, no matter what? (I think most pet people who are offered a nice pup on a co-own are more concerned about the pup being taken from them)Who pays for vet visits? Who gets him if you die? (Will they now co-own with your family, or will he become all theirs?)Tell them to write down all questions they have about it, so they don't forget to ask you. And, make sure they don't neuter him! You would be surprised how often this happens!

I co-own a lovely female with a couple about an hour away. WHile they have had labs before, had never shown in confirmation either, but were excited to begin and learn. We discussed all questions while they came to visit and I tyoed up what I felt and they felt was a fair contract. I charged half the price for the pup to them and she resides with them. We both attend confirmation classes together and have already been to three shows and pup just turned 6 months old three weeks ago. She is well trained and cared for and a happy girl. {Best part}. All vet expenses are split as well as show fees. We pay our own gas for shows as we usually attend together. Any breeding expenses, stud fees, OFA and CERF and Optigen will be split when the time comes. If either party wants to end the contract, they can and person ending will either pay the other half of the pup and have full ownership or give it back to the co-owner[breeder} and relinquish rights. They understand no guarantees the pup will be a breeding dog. If pup doesn't clear, I will refund the other half of the pup fee or apply it to another co-own pup. I will either re-home the pup after spay or they can keep her as a pet. They are fine with that. So far working great. If I [breeder}whelp future pups, I get 1st, 3rd and so on picks and vice versa. We talk every week and plan shows together. It is the best of both worlds. As far as food, they are not concerned about paying for food and things like shots, but for more veterinary services, we split the cost. They adore her and are so proud as she made the initial cut in 6-9 month class at a specialty show and already has taken a RWB at the tender age of 6 months and 1 day old at her first and second shows. So far so good. And yes we have a written and singed contract stating all of this.

Just be aware that dogs in pet homes NEVER look liked dogs breeders keep/raise/feed properly/exercise properly. My advice is if you really want to show this boy, keep him yourself and tell the family that you are sorry, but you have to keep him as you breed for yourself and have to keep the best of the litter. I never promise puppies that might possibly be keepers. I don't care how long a family has been waiting, that's just the way it is!

Unless people express a real interest in showing, you should not expect showing him will work out. It is a pain to pick up a dog for a show, plus people really are not happy when they have to part with their pets. I have one co-own near me and I have to lend them a dog if I take their dog for more than a day. If all you are looking for is future stud availability, that is much easier.

The best advice I can give is to say that co-ownerships are a lot like marriages. They work out best if both parties share the same GOALS and RESPECT each other's attitudes and methods. It doesn't sound like this is one of those marriages.

I have a co-own bitch, I sold her for half price, I will do clearences & pay for breeding, I have a signed contract & I get first pic pup from the litter girl or boy. I also stated in the contract that a litter must consist of 6 living pups. If this female is spayed without my consent the owner has to pay me the balance of the puppy. Make sure you have everything in writing & signed by both parties! I can't force someone who wanted a pet puppy to show or title a dog. If I sell a pup to someone who wants to breed it's co owned & the owner has to get out there & do something with the dog I don't care what they chose to do. obedience....etc.

I would never place a show dog in a pet home...not the same goals, and the poster who said they most likely will not keep him the way you want him is correct. My pet people kept a collar on their boy all the time, brushed him and bathed him frequently so he did not have proper coat, and bred him to a bitch without clearances and didn't tell me about it until afterwards. They babied him to the point where he did not want to be away from them when I took him to shows and he never did show well.
I had a gorgeous boy from a litter I was going to keep a girl from and was counseled to keep him instead of placing him in a home where they "might" let me show him. I kept him, made him a champion easily, and he ended up being my constant companion until the day he died.
Some things are just meant to be, despite our initial plans we have....I would keep him if he's that nice, you will not regret it!

I would say don't do it either. They talk a good talk but when it comes down to it most don't want to show. Come up with alot of excuses. Then if you co own with a breeder sometimes they expect way to much. Pup does not clear everything they want another or money back, etc. Think some would be fine and understand we all take chances with these dogs. It either works out of it does not.

If they have no interest in showing/breeding/training, don't do it. They'll disappear after they get the puppy. The'll tell you what you want to hear, get the puppy and leave.

I co-own a male. From the start I expressed interest in conformation. My mom showed her dogs, and when she passed I was young and didn't at that time want to follow in her steps. I had them all fixed and they became house dogs. As I got older I decided I now wanted to start again. It was hard finding someone who took me seriously. I also work at an animal hospital and have for almost 10yrs, so would I consider me an average pet home, No! Well I found that somebody who took a chance on me. My boy is 2yrs and 4 months, and has become a very nice boy. I can walk into any ring and nobody can tell he's from a pet home. He swims, gets the best food, supplements, and no he doesn't wear a collar. We are still showing, and just won our first major. I'm responsible for all fees, but I wanted to show him. I guess like others said it's all about the terms you both agree too. But there are some great co-owners out there, and not to toot my own horn but me being one of those!!!!

I've done 3, and have learned already a bit the hard way. For the first 2, I discounted the purchase price to cover OFAs/CERFs up front. I'd pay for the rest if the dog was breeding quality. Problem w/ #2 is that once 1 yr CERF was due, the gal had no $$$ (even though it was a clinic -- only $22). I can't imagine it'll get any better for OFAs. esp since I've not seen the pup for months, and it's local. :(

For #3, I charged full price, and said I'd pay all breeding expenses when/if the time came. We'd do one litter together, and I'd give them back a pup or the equiv for their trouble. Ends up she's looking to be a bit small at this point.

Windycanyon the OP was asking about placing a dog she wants to SHOW in Pet home. You seem focused only on breeding on how many puppies you can get back :(

Not true "Umm". My point was that if the pup is one of your nicest, I've decided it's silly to discount up front in hopes that person will show (or put perf titles, etc, on it) or that'll it turn out nice enough to breed (which the OP alludes to). We really don't have a lot of control over people, their lives, etc. anyhow, and life is really too short to get into battles over a dog.

I think Windy Canyon was just giving examples of what can go wrong. Think alot that say they will show have thoughts of doing so. They just don't have the same desire that we do. Main thing is they want a very nice puppy.

I have seen several nice puppies go to pet homes on a co-own. PET PEOPLE DO NOT raise them the same that we do!!!!! I can promise you that the puppy you are sending to a pet home/co-own will be raised in a pet dog fashion and will not grow the same. You will lose bone, coat and most likely some manners!
If *YOU* want to show this puppy later down the road, then your safest bet is to raise him/her yourself. Unless your people are 100% on board and are completely willing to raise the puppy in the fashion a show dog is raised, I heavily advise against it. Best of Luck!

What would you say the main difference is between a pet home and a breeder's home/kennel in terms of the way they raise a puppy?

I know there are different types of homes from very active families with children to quiet settings with maybe one or two adults, etc.. and the same about kennels/breeders... from large settings with dogs spending many hours in kennels to smaller ones with more dogs living inside the house but I am curious to know how these differences impact what is supposed to be already determined by genes? I was intrigued especially the comment about amount of bone in the previous post?

Is it the amount of exercise? Too much undivided attention? The learning by example watching other dogs being stacked, etc? The diet? Too much comfort? etc...


Thank you!

From my experience and what I have been told through the years by my mentors, puppies need plenty of fresh air (that means outside all day romping)water always available, lots of good quality food and proper exposure at the appropriate age to outside environments. Usually this means running on several from a litter so they can have playmates to romp with all day( as we all know what can happen when they are put with older dogs.) They get wet, muddy, chew on yucky stuff, have free exercise (as opposed to forced , ie. leash walking) and thrive in the fresh air at all different temperatures with appropriate housing. Those are the pups you see who look soooo beautiful in the sweeps 6-9 at our specialtys.

Agreeing with the above poster. Show dog puppies need to be outside, not in the house or crates or runs. They *need* plenty of exercise playing, romping around and just being silly puppies. I'm not referring to just a few minutes a day. Being in the house for several hours while the family is gone during the day is what you don't want. The puppy must be outside more in a day than he/she is in the house. They just don't grow the same if they are confined. I've seen it too many times.
You also have to feed a quality food. Your co-owners may not want to pay the price for quality food either. The food makes a difference!
The above poster hit the nail on the head!

I am sorry but I disagree with what you said. I have been showing for about 5 years now. I have a boy that just needs a major to finish but is fighting an acl injury right now. I have several pointed dogs. My first bred-by puppies placed nicely at Nationals and are pointed. And they live indoor. All my dogs live indoors. And as of today still have wonderful coats. My dogs have nice coats all the time. Yes they blow their coats but still have wonderful coats. I feed good food and they all get daily exercise. They all go to obedience training. They all have nice bone and I believe are beautiful dogs.


There is no way I would leave my poor puppies outside when it is almost 100 degrees here.

"Being in the house for several hours while the family is gone during the day is what you don't want."

What, so if you work for a living you cannot have puppies or have show dogs. Give me a break.

From previous post: "Agreeing with the above poster. Show dog puppies need to be outside, not in the house or crates or runs. They *need* plenty of exercise playing, romping around and just being silly puppies. I'm not referring to just a few minutes a day. Being in the house for several hours while the family is gone during the day is what you don't want. The puppy must be outside more in a day than he/she is in the house. They just don't grow the same if they are confined. I've seen it too many times."

WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!! I have been showing for years and whether the puppy is raised indoors or outdoors has nothing to do with how the puppy grows. Oh right, plenty of fresh air makes a better show dog.

Are they also the same pups that sit in a van or truck, going from show to show with handlers? What fresh air to they get being raised that way from 6 mo. on and what kind of life is that?

Co-Ownerships are either made in heaven or hell and rarely in between. Make sure everything is in WRITING and what ramifications, if any, when things don't go as planned.

IMO, if he's that nice, keep him yourself, or only co-own with a close friend. Once a puppy leaves your care, you have no say so if he's neutered or not, vaccinated or not, etc... You hope they do what is best for the dog, if not you, but that is not always the case.

I have been burned more often than not in co-owns, but I use a simple rule now to decide whether or not a puppy/dog will stay. Would it break my heart if I permanently lost this dog from breeding/showing program? If yes, they stay. If not, we hope for the best...

Good luck,

Leslee Pope
Huntcrest

Ditto on what Leslie said.

Saying that a show puppy should spend most of its time outside just sounds to me like an excuse from someone trying to justify the fact that their dogs don't have a whole lot of human contact during the day.

I raised my dogs in a kennel environment when I had 7-10 dogs at a time, in outdoor play-yards with dog houses when I had 5-6 dogs, and then most recently in the house as house dogs now that there are only 3-4 of them. Putting their coat and condition aside (which by the way, I can see NO DIFFERENCE in) I can honestly say there is NO WAY that anyone can tell me that dogs are emotionally fulfilled living in kennels... or even spending the majority of their time in outdoor yards without human interaction.

My dogs are immensely happier, healthier, and just more fulfilled now that they live in the house with me. I will never go back to putting them through separation from their people like that again. I think anyone trying to suggest that dogs do better outside for any reason at all is fooling themself or just plain full of crap.