You never think it will happen to you. You think your dogs are in shape and used to the 'elements'. You think that going out at 9:30am will make it better, that its not too hot yet. Not the case. Today we almost lost our sweet girl to heat stroke.

We were practicing dummy retrieves at 930am. It was already getting hot but we were half shaded. Plenty of water available for the dogs. Only 15 minutes. Thats all it took was 15 minutes!! The rest of the dogs were fine, but she became wobbly on her rear. We had her lay down. A little history, according to DDC she is EIC affected. This bitch is in shape, she has done field work in all sorts of weather. She has never collapsed or ever became wobbly in her 22 months of life. She heavily panted and laid on her side. A minute goes by and we notice she can't stand, even if she wanted to. I thought, 'here we go, we are schmucks for doubting the EIC test. She is having an exercise induced collapse'. Another 2 minutes pass, we put ice on her feet and water on her stomach and under her legs. She is getting worse. We tried to give her water by squirting a little in her mouth. She begins to choke. Within just 8-10 minutes she went from a panting, happy retriever to now her eyes were glazing over and was hyperventilating. We got her in the van, she was limp. Then the screaming started. She cried, she was so confused. I don't think she could see. That cry will haunt me, our poor sweet girl. We tried to keep her calm, thank God we were only 5 minutes from our vet who is open on Sundays.

We went running in as my husband carried her limp body into the vet. We sat in the lobby, you could hear her continued cries from the back as they worked on her. What felt like an eternity went by waiting, they brought us back to a room. When they took her temperature when she came in, it did not register. That means her temp was over 108 degrees from 15 minutes of short distance retrieves, 9:30 in the morning. But within the period of waiting (about 15 min) they got her down to 104 degrees. They started IV fluids and plasma transfusion. First thing out of our mouths was 'can EIC do this?' Our vet's responded that the literature she has read shows that dogs that collapse from EIC do NOT have a temperature rise. When temp is taken during a collapse, it was normal. The EIC collapse dog recovers within 10-20 minutes. We are not seeing that. So our vet diagnosed her with heat stroke, not an EIC event.

They sent us home as they admitted her. What do you do to pass the time but research on the computer. The info on heat stroke is not promising. Since her temp was so high, we really were not sure she would pull through this in one piece. A few hours later the vet called to say she had improved, our gal walked out and went potty, was drinking water, and was finishing up her transfusion. All her blood work came back normal, for now.

They are keeping her overnight for observation. We are hoping since we got her to the vet within 15 minutes of her collapse that maybe she will be ok. All we can do is pray. But I have never experience heat stroke. I don't know what to expect. We feel so helpless. Questions continue to roll around in my head:
Will her personality change/will she have cognitive damage?
Will she have neurological damage that will effect her walking/running?
Will she be able to show again or do field work?
Will she be able to be bred some day or do I need to retire her from my program?
Does EIC affected mean a dog is more susceptible to heat stroke?

Many of these questions do not have answers. We just have to wait and see. It could be months.

According to the U of Minn website, it supports the diagnosis of our vet that this was NOT a EIC event http://www.vdl.umn.edu/ourservices/canineneuromuscular/eic/taylor2008/home.html

But you have to wonder is that why she collapsed and none of the other dogs did? Is it because the test says she is EIC affected, and the rest of our dogs are clear or carriers? The vet described to me its like a football team, they don't know why just one player collapsed from heat stroke, they were all out there, doing all the same work and all conditioned. Just some people, and dogs, are more susceptible to the heat.

If she continues to improve, our girl will come home tomorrow. I assume we will have to get blood work done in a week or two to see how all the organs are functioning. Even if there is no damage, she cannot show for at least 3 months. It sounds like her 'summer' career is over for sure as the vet says she is high risk to have heat stroke again.

I always thought, never my dogs, I am careful. Boy was I wrong.

I'm so sorry this happened and I hope your girl has a quick and speedy recovery. Thanks for taking the time to type all that out and sharing your story. Good Luck.

I've also had a fit dog experience heat stroke. I learned that if you are really motivated you can carry a 70 lb dog back to your car. Same scenario as yours. She lived a long and healthy dog thereafter--and taught me a valuable lesson about hydration and heat.

sorry you had to go through this and hoping your girl recovers completely.

the temps this summer have been brutal and your lab just got caught....once it happens it gets worse.

I dont think it really has anything to do with the EIC, just bad old heat stroke.

Weather here in NE is painfully hot so as a break I take the dogs swimming, usually early evening but it's still sticky and humid. Is is possible to get heat stroke from retrieving bumpers in the water?
They are in the water for about 30- 45 min. not retrieving the entire time but a lot nonetheless.
I stop throwing bumpers about 10 or so min. before I take them out and head home (in air conditioned car)
can heat stroke still happen?

Why would we question what it is ? She is effected. And yes, they are paired together. I am so sorry for your girl and you. Sounds so scary. Others need to be so careful in this heat. We say we have never seen it like this and we go out and work out dogs when it is this humid. Duh, think I could wait a week or two. Not talking you, just trying to make others think and not put the dogs through this. Thank you for all the details and giving us a jog.
Hoping the best for your girl and bet she is just fine when you get her home.

Hope your girl is fine. We had a similar scare with one of our black ones. Took them to a park with little shade on what turned out to be a very hot day in the fall. After about 2 hours of play with other dogs, we were taking a walk around the park, and her legs started to wobble. I had no water with me as the big bucket was set up at the gate of the park, and we were just doing a short walk. The walk was actually slow and relaxing, so not sure what could have triggered it. Possibly a build up of heat and being tired? We immediately went to the car, loaded her in the back, turned on our dog show fans, doused her with water, and let her rest while we said our Good Byes to friends. Once home she was fine.

We never took temp because she was fine when we got home about 45 min. later. Vet the next day thought heat exhaustion, not EIC. Though a later test proved EIC affected. But how do we know for SURE? Yes, it did clear up fast but maybe it's because I was faster on getting the dog into shade and cooled down before her body continued to heat up? There was no unique stimulation/excitement that this dog hasn't experienced before. And it's never happened since even with field training and playing in our yard with many other dogs.

I am so sorry you went through this, but it is a great lesson to me so thank you for telling your story. Edie

EIC is a heat-mediated disorder. At a certain threshold temperature, the neurotransmitter breaks down and signals to the muscles stop functioning. Generally it affects the large muscles the furthest from the brain (the rear legs) first. This was probably what you initially noticed when she became overheated. However, if the dog was overheated beyond that threshold, then other symptoms will begin to show just as you noted. It is good that you managed to get her cooled before her brain was severely affected. Heat stroke is a real danger in our current weather.

So, you don't need to think of the problem as EITHER heat stroke or EIC. When an EIC affected dog gets overheated, the EIC symptoms will show initially, but if the dog's temperature is higher than the trigger point, other heat collapse symptoms will follow. The major distinction is that if it is JUST a collapse from EIC, the dog is not so overheated and the body temperature will usually drop below the threshold point with a short rest.

You may note in the University of Minnesota information that some dogs have had fatal episodes. They are not sure why, but it may have something to do with an inability of the dog to pant its temperature down sufficiently before the muscle paralysis spreads to more critical areas. It is one of those anomalies being studied. In tropical climates, I would consider EIC a potentially fatal disorder.

Oh my god... I'm so sorry that you and your girl had to go through this. I hope that she will continue to get better and will be as good as normal when she's home tomorrow!
Since I'm not from USA I don't experience this kind of heat so my dogs can run and play, do retrieve work all day in our summers with out us worrying about heat strokes. How can you exercise your dogs during the summers?

this account is a GOOD reason for those who have not yet to please check your dogs for EIC. It saddens me to see so many ppl offering boys to the public without a clearance and requiring nothing from the bitch owners.
JMHO

This is what is on U of M's website about EIC.

FACTORS CONTRIBUTING TO COLLAPSE IN DOGS WITH EIC

Ambient Temperature. Actual ambient temperature does not seem to be a critical factor contributing to collapse, but if the temperature is much warmer or the humidity is much higher than what the dog is accustomed to, collapse may be more likely. Excessive panting (hyperventilation) in hot weather may be a contributing factor. Affected dogs are less likely to collapse in cold weather or while swimming, but some dogs have exhibited collapse while breaking ice retrieving waterfowl in frigid temperatures and some dogs have drowned when experiencing EIC -related collapse in the water.

"Our vet's responded that the literature she has read shows that dogs that collapse from EIC do NOT have a temperature rise."

I'm sorry to have to disagree with your vet, but dogs having an EIC episode certainly DO have a dramatic increase in body temperature. A temp of a 107 degrees is not abnormal for a dog having an EIC episode. What you are describing sounds like a typical collapse.

The following is taken from the University of Min website:
DIFFERENTIATING EIC FROM HEAT STROKE:
"There have been a number of good veterinary reviews of heat stroke in dogs recently and the syndrome we are seeing with EIC is very different. With heat stroke - induced collapse in dogs you expect to see a very slow or prolonged recovery that can take hours to days, or else progression to death. Laboratory evaluation reveals a dramatic increase in muscle enzymes (CK usually 7-11X normal). Mentation changes that are severe, progressive and persistent (for hours to days) occur in 80% of affected dogs and significant endothelial injury leads to microvascular thrombosis, DIC, thrombocytopenia and bleeding as well as acute renal failure in most patients. In contrast, dogs with EIC collapse without showing laboratory abnormalities and they recover quickly - happy and running around within 5 to 25 minutes"
------------------

This thread (in my mind at least) demonstrates the lack of knowledge regarding some of the veterinary community regarding EIC. It also gives me the opportunity to discuss the validity of the test.

I (personally) witnessed a collapse in a dog that was tested as a **carrier** , not affected. I have also *heard* ( I really do not like speaking to hearsay, so I would hope that the person that has this information would come on and validate it) of dogs that were tested *clear* as collapsing with EIC. Before you say that those episodes were heat exhaustion, the one that I witnessed was clearly EIC (again, from a dog that was tested as *just* a carrier) There is a big difference. Not only the very high body temperature, but the fact that the dog is up and back on it's feet within 25 minutes like nothing happened.

I would really like to hear others experiences with dogs that were tested normal/carrier collapsing. Call me suspicious, but I (like many of you) lived through the first Optigen PRA test. Trust me, I am not burying my head in the sand about EIC, BUT if a test is marketed , I want to believe in it's accuracy. The difference here, is that when Optigen saw that there was a flaw in their test, they went back to the lab. I do not believe this is happening with the EIC test.

Any thoughts?

Jill

Regardless of what/how it happened, I do hope your girl recovers quickly - how very scary it must have been!

I don't know, Jill. I was shocked to find out that my bitch is EIC affected. She is from show lines exclusively and is sired by a very popular stud dog. I had the test done with Ingen because it was free. I then felt I needed confirmation and retested her with DDC and the test results are the same. EIC, from what I know, is a simple recessive. . . mother and father are both carriers, and testing should be straight forward.

My bitch is almost three and a half and has never collapse. She has been exercised continuously since she has been a puppy but not excessively.

I just found out her litter sister collapsed after a one hour hike on a very hot day. I personally would not exercise my dogs on the hot days that we have experienced this summer. So was the litter sister's collapse heat stroke or EIC? Who knows?

I do know that when I breed my bitch I will need to find an EIC clear dog and I hope we all just bite the bullet and do the darn test.

I beg you, please don't breed this bitch. As an EIC affected dog ALL her offspring will be carriers. Why would you want to produce this kind of heartache for others? I am so very sorry that this happened to your sweet girl but let it be a signal to you, a sign to spay her and love her and give her a great life. It feels like you're in denial and your decision can have devastating consequences.

Well, I think this is the point that Jill is trying to make by saying she personally saw an EIC "carrier" collapse. Do we, at this point, trust the test results? If so, which Labratory to use? Where can we send our samples and feel comfortable? At this point, I would be hesitant to breed an affected dog. JMO.

The girl in question in this topic is doing wonderful this morning so she will be coming home this evening after her 12pm bloodwork is drawn and run and everything checks out OK. As of this morning she was playing with a ball in her crate, eating and drinking fine with no side affects.

I was with Heart-Broken Mom when her girl went down and for the two of us this was a 1st. We still had alot of questions this morning and Jill's response made us call the Univ of Minn this morning as well. Talking to someone really answered alot of our questions and has us thinking in alot of different directions. Once major indicator told to me was that in a Heat Stroke the indicator is the blood work going off for a bit (enzymes) and then coming back with in 24-72 hours. In this girl her blood-work has remained normal since the time she was admitted and still is fine, and this is consistent with EIC Collapse. So this, along with a few other things, makes us realize that this was an EIC collapse and not a Heat Stroke Episode. We have actually been asked to share our records of this collapse with Univ of Minn which we will be faxing this afternoon.

I think the scariest part of this was not watching the episode occur in front of our eye's it was the idea that we didn't really take the test seriously. We had all of our dogs tested for the sake of testing but didn't realize the truth until she was laying infront of us collapsing and not able to move or walk. I think this should be a major wake up call for everyone as this girl has run field trails in all seasons and for whatever reason yesterday something was different and triggered her Collapse.

A major reality check in our lives that is for sure at how easily we can loose our beloved 4-legged friends.



Additional EIC information:
http://www.vdl.umn.edu/ourservices/canineneuromuscular/eic/taylor2008/home.html#description

Thank you so much for taking the time to call U of Minn and get additional information and passing it on to the list. I for one have started testing all my dogs now and firmly believe that the safest course of action is to only breed for non-affecteds. The more I learn about this disease, the more I realize how easy it is to breed around it and not just poo-poo the test as similar to the early PRA test.

Please people - test your dogs!!! And use the information accordingly.

I appreciate you taking the time to follow up on the information we have received through this post.

I am glad the sweet girl is going to be fine and please give her "momma" a hug from us. :-)

I kept one bitch from my last litter and she's affected. I actually tested the puppies before they went to their homes but chose to keep this one because she fit all my criteria for my program.

I don't breed to untested dogs with carrier girls (she's my first affected one) and I only breed to clear dogs with my girls that are carriers.

I learned about EIC when I bred my first collapsing affected puppy. This was before the DNA test was available but was confirmed by the test.

It's a shame we have to be bitten before we believe.

Good information to consider, OP. Glad you followed up with the experts. Your experience with an EIC collapse was different from mine, but both are valuable for learning about this genetic disorder. Let's hope that your girl doesn't have any more episodes - they are pretty scary!

Yes, hope she will be just fine and thank you for sharing all this information with us. We learn a little each day. But this was alot in a short time. It is out there.

Typical disoriented ranting of someone who makes no sense. Common on here....

breeder

Breeder 30

Why would we question what it is ? She is effected. And yes, they are paired together. I am so sorry for your girl and you. Sounds so scary. Others need to be so careful in this heat. We say we have never seen it like this and we go out and work out dogs when it is this humid. Duh, think I could wait a week or two. Not talking you, just trying to make others think and not put the dogs through this. Thank you for all the details and giving us a jog.
Hoping the best for your girl and bet she is just fine when you get her home.

Huh?

Thank you Jill. Having owned TWO dogs who collapsed multiple times before there was a test (imagine what was running through our minds having no idea what was happening)I agree. What the OP described was clearly EIC.
The key factor to recovery was keeping them calm during the episode and cooling their bodies with water. I went through it first hand. It is terrifying.

ok I did not want this to get onto the subject of not breeding carriers or affected dogs.

I am simply asking if any other breeders have seen collapsing dogs that *should* not be collapsing according to there test results.

-J

good question about the method for testing...cheek swab vs blood. I don't have the answer to that, but will try to find out.

I am going to guess that most of the testing being done *is* through swabs


-Jill

This information is several years old. I don't know if it is outdated but have not heard anything to suggest that it is. Jill's question was one of the first I had when the test became available; it is obviously a very important consideration for a breeder. I read the publication in Nature Genetics and had a conversation by email with Katie Minor at UM about it. The frequency of EIC-like collapses in carriers was the same as in normals, about 1%. The interpretation was that about 1% of the EIC-like collapses occur because of causes other than the dynamin I mutation that the EIC test targets. These collapses are no more frequent in carriers than in non-carriers. 99% of EIC- like collapses are caused by the mutation which the UM test detects. Remember that this not a marker test like the first PRA test. The researchers have identified the actual gene AND the change within that gene that causes EIC. The probability of linkage is astronomically high. Dynamin ! is a protein involved in recycling neurotransmittors, the chemicals that neurons use to communicate with muscles. Dynamin I is a protein, and proteins can have temperature sensitive mutations. The mutated version of the protein becomes unfolded and therefore nonfunctional at lower temperatures than the unmutated form. I have not read any experimental evidence that this happens to the dynamin I protein, but it would not be unheard of.

Our girl is home, happy and NORMAL! There appears to be NO CHANGE in her personality, gaiting or energy level. Thank you for all your good thoughts. What a roller-coaster the past 36 hours have been. We talked to the U of Minn, specifically Katie. She was so very helpful and bottom line is that dogs during EIC collapse have shown a temp of 107 or more. Could we have seen a combo of EIC event that progressed to heat exhaustion. Maybe. However all her blood work for 24 hours has been completely normal. Her muscle enzymes (CK) never changed. This indicates that most likely it was a severe EIC event complicated by the high humidity and heat.

To the person who think EIC affected dogs should be removed from programs, I disagree. Katie has seen no evidence in their research to indicate an EIC affected bitch will have an abnormal pregnancy or whelp. To her knowledge there is no documented EIC event during a whelp on record. As someone pointed out these are tools for us to use. My gal will only be bred to an EIC clear stud. And though her offspring will be carriers, they will not be affected. By the second generation I can possibly be free of EIC! You have to be smart with your choices, thats all.

I have lived and learned a hard lesson. EIC IS REAL. Affected dogs will collapse if put in the right situation. If you avoid their triggers, it may never happen. This is a conformation pedigree, very well known names. I have already ordered more kits from DDC to test the rest of my kennel. I cannot change what I have done before yesterday, but I sure as hell can make better breeding choices starting today.

Also I have learned that humidity is just as dangerous as heat. Keep your dogs inside and let them get a little out of shape. Its not worth the risk IMHO.

Thank you 'heart broken mom BFF'. You are a wonderful friend and I thank you for all you have done. You saved my baby girl.

I am so happy your girl is fine, but... I just have to ask. After all this-- after U of MN graciously answered all your questions and took time out of their busy day, why are you going with DDC to test the rest of your gang? Why not support the program that gave you some very good (and FREE) help today??? I just don't get it!

Former university researcher and current private lab/consultant--- Anne

btw, I had an EIC clear go down to heat exhaustion (near heat stroke) 2 Augusts ago on an unusually humid day for my area. I too began to doubt the test (research test at the time but confirmed Clear w/ the final test), but hers was longer lasting and she was fading into seizure mode they feared at the clinic. Fortunately, she's been fine ever since. Another friend lost her 4.5 yo EIC clear this spring while FT training in N. Cal in only 69F weather and normal training. For some reason (perhaps an allergy to the grasses????), his cooling mechanisms failed him. There are other things besides EIC and Heat stroke/exhaustion that can cause collapses too-- so let's not forget that. This is a good warning to all... be careful out there!

I don't know if this info is of any help. Even though it is just one incident, I found out my girl was EIC affected when she had a really bad collapse almost 5 weeks pregnant. It was one of the longest 24 hours of my life. She did go on and have 7 healthy puppies, with no sign of any effects from the incident. FYI

Anon - can you share what brought on your girl's episode of EIC? Was she very excited about a retrieve? Intense excitement can bring on an episode.

She was about 4 years old, was about 5pm, playing and running with the pack behind the house. weather was mild, no humidity. Out of the middle of no where, she slowed, wobbled, loss strength in her rear legs, and soon fell over just before I got to her. was slightly disoriented and weak for about 5 minutes. She tried to get up and still was having difficulty with her balance. I picked her up, and off to the vet we went. Was really concerned, didn't know at the time what to make of it. She ended up staying over night as a precautionary measure, and was fine about 30 minutes after the episode. I am careful to not let her get overly excited and worked up any more. I limit her to smaller groups of older dogs that are more settled in nature. Its been 2 years now, with only that episode occurring.

Are you joking so what if all the offspring are carriers that does not have any affect to anyone. You people make such a big deal about everything that has no barring on the whole picture. People are taking this stuff so out of context we need to use information as just that but to not breed something solely because of it is absurd. Maybe we as people should stop producing until we pass all the health requirements of our dogs. Don't get me wrong I breed health dogs but this is going overboard. I don't believe the test is completely accurate and therefore would not dismiss a good dog or bitch because of it.
I am sorry for you girls heat stroke and since she has been affected my it once it is very likely her heat tolerance is much lower but I believe as your vet does that it was the heat and NOT EIC. I have an 11 yr old who is EIC affected by test who lives in high heat and ran hunt tests and test dog and he has never shown any signs of EIC collapse or heat stroke.

If you read my whole post, I did share my experiences w/ heat induced collapses.

Sorry you seemed insulted-- but I am embarassed and insulted FOR the U of MN folks who have spent a great deal of time helping us sort thru all of this!

Thanks Anon. Sorry for your terrible scare with this episode.

Your girl is OK! I can't even imagine. Well, no, I can because somehow I managed on pure adrenalin to carry my 82 pound dog up two flights of stairs and into the car when she got sick (not EIC) Thank you for sharing your story. Because of you, I have ordered a testing kit. Because of you, I will not exercise my own sweet girl in the heat. Because of you, many of us are just a little wiser and perhaps, because of you, a life will be saved.

Just wanted to say 'thank you' to everyone who had kind wishes and words for our gal. I am glad to hear that sharing our story was able to even reach just one person to the dangers of the heat and the reality of EIC. Remember affected dogs can collapse over time if the conditions are right.

Its been a week and our gal is 100% normal. Happy and full of energy. This is what has made us realize it was EIC, not heat stroke. There was not ONE residual effect from her collapse, despite her super high temp.

Thank you once again for taking the time to share in our experience.