Has a Labrador ever won Best in Show at Westminister... I believe that answer is no but not sure and am looking on line... thought someone knowledgeable would know

Nope

Why do you think they overlook Labs?

It's not the fact that they "overlook" them.

It has just been the way it is. When there is a Labrador that can beat out these very showy/stylish breeds, then we will have a winner:

2010 Scottish Terrier
2009 Spaniel (Sussex)
2008 Beagle
2007 Spaniel (English Springer)
2006 Bull Terrier (colored)
2005 Pointer (German Shorthaired)
2004 Newfoundland
2003 Kerry Blue Terrier
2002 Poodle (Miniature)
2001 Bichon Frise

It is nothing against the Lab, but just take a look at All Breed BIS winners... It really takes a lot to have a Lab win.

I think the fact that Labs has never won is that they are so "normal" in looks. They are not an exotic breed and I think that those breeds that are more "stylish" win more often BIS. It's not that we need better Labs... it's just they whey they look general... if you know what I mean.

Yes, I understand
Thanks!

Labs just aren't "sexy" compared to the other breeds .. even in the Sporting Group compared to Pointers and Setters ..

I think i'll come soon. Labs have been climbing up on the "big wins" circle.
It all depends on us as breeders to continue to make the Lab a winner in the all breed circuit.

Yes who has the most in their purse to hire the most political handler, LOL

Labs are the most popular dogs in America, so there are probably more Labs than any other breed. By shear numbers one would think that surely amongst those thousands would be one which most closely resembles the breed standard. THAT is supposed to be the criteria, not which dog is the "most exotic!" I wonder if Labs would fare better if the field lines and the show lines were separated. If all breed judges think Labs should look like field Labs, then it's small wonder a show Lab wouldn't win. Just wondering...

Oh dear...I doubt it. You would need to further split between the specialty and the all breed dogs. Very sad state of affairs if you think about it. We can't blame judges entirely when we as a fancy don't even consistantly breed the same type or standard!

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/history/sportbrecords.html

found some more information... thought it was interesting to share!

I agree with "Well"

IMO: I think breeders in our breed play with the breed standard much more than other breeders in others breeds.

That's sort of what I was trying to say, but attempting to be diplomatic and not start a war. I think the lack of winning at all-breed is about not meeting a standard as well as some other breed. A 90 pound bitch with tons of coat and bone is, in my eyes, beautiful. But she is not what the standard calls for. So...do we need to change the dogs, or change the standard? I don't know the answer but I do know that saying it's because Labs aren't exotic is off the mark.

Usually the breeds that are noticed tend to be flashy. Our breed is far from flashy.

I was very happy for Mary Wiest and Beechcroft for taking a Group placement on top of the breed 2 years in a row with James. Nice handling of a beautiful boy Fabian and very deserving.

I wasn't trying to start a war. Just stating the fact.

I don't think we could change the standard (which has been a never ending topic) because not everyone will agree. If there was a consistency amongst our labs, that wasn't to standard but consistent, then yes we should revisit modifying the breed standard.

But there is no consistency. So, we are back at point A :)

Hopefully a judge will look at the most beautiful, kind and soft expressive face with those adoring, kind eyes and nicely balanced body and chose it as the winner! We'll all be so proud!

AMEN!!!

There are other breeds that have split into two types... like the English Setters... if you look at the English Setters from Norway, Sweden and other Europeian countries they look totally different!!!!! We have the pure hunting type and pure show type, yet has the English Setter been placed more as BIS than Labradors. Is it because English Setters are flashier than the Labradors? I bet it's the same with the Irish Setters too... hunting type and show type so it's not just in the Labrador breed. I think we have some most wonderful dogs and close to breed type, many of them who should have won BIS... the big question is why they don't win... maybe they're just not showy enough!!
Here's a show English Setter: http://myndir.bloggar.is/myndir/12034/20191/45380a0445107.jpg
Here's a hunting type English setter: http://www.dovehunt.com/images/bird_dogs/english_setter_johnie_big_002.jpg
These two dogs are from the same breed... but very very different!!!! It's unbelievable that both dogs are English setters!

My point was that there are not two types of Labs...but three in the US. At any given show you will see a huge disparity in type, conformation and movement. I do not even include the field dogs in this description because honestly...we don't see them in the ring. This is my point as to why perhaps our judges are confused. It seems we the breeders can't even agree on what this breed should look like!

Well I think with the English Setter has more than 2 types as well... I just pointed out these 2 types... English setters are totally different in Sweden and Norway... compared to them in USA as there are more than one or 2 types there also. So it's not just in Labradors. Just wanted to point that out too ;)

There are other breeds that have split into two types... like the English Setters... if you look at the English Setters from Norway, Sweden and other Europeian countries they look totally different!!!!! We have the pure hunting type and pure show type, yet has the English Setter been placed more as BIS than Labradors. Is it because English Setters are flashier than the Labradors? I bet it's the same with the Irish Setters too... hunting type and show type so it's not just in the Labrador breed. I think we have some most wonderful dogs and close to breed type, many of them who should have won BIS... the big question is why they don't win... maybe they're just not showy enough!!
Here's a show English Setter: http://myndir.bloggar.is/myndir/12034/20191/45380a0445107.jpg
Here's a hunting type English setter: http://www.dovehunt.com/images/bird_dogs/english_setter_johnie_big_002.jpg
These two dogs are from the same breed... but very very different!!!! It's unbelievable that both dogs are English setters![/quote]


but with English Setters there are still some that do both successfully. beautiful, brains and birdy as all get out http://www.englishsetter.com/show.php?op=showdog&id=10&type=4

This is an interesting discussion. As a breeder of Newfoundlands as well as Labs, I can say that the two times a Newf has been put up at Westminster was when they exhibited the true "essence" of type and the breeder of the animal was clearly dedicated to doing that--certainly, Newfs are not flashy, LOL. This is my personal observation on the situation. And, of course, the handlers were exceptional and handled a large animal impeccably. Goes without saying. I am always pulling for both Breeds when I watch! I am not sure if I am understanding the 3 (?) types of Labs discussion point, though.