I had a lovely litter on friday. It is out of a two and a half year old, very sweet and calm bitch that had her first litter, so has no experience with puppies. She delivered them, cleans them, feeds them, and seems to love them. But she is a big girl (about 80 lbs), and she delivered them on friday night, and the last two nights, i check on them about every 45 minutes to an hour, and both nights I found a puppy dead in the whelping box. Both times I tried cpr for 5 to 10 minutes on the puppy and couldn't bring them back. I have a baby monitor in the box and the other next to my ear while I sleep, and hear no real cries for help. I set my alarm religiously every hour at the latest, but usually get up before the alarm as I am so worried. I have never had this happen before in 10 years of having litters. Some of my girls have had litters of 10 and this hasn't happen. She originally had 9 puppies, now has 7. I assume that she is laying on them, otherwise they seem healthy and are eating. The girl who I lost just at 6 am when I checked them had gained 1 1/2 ounces. Any ideas of what to do. Even if I had been sleeping right outside the box on the floor, I wouldn't have heard anything, as the monitor puts any sounds coming from the puppies "in stereo" so you hear it even louder. I don't know if I should take her out of there and only put her in the box every hour and a half to feed them, and thats it.
Another option I have (and I have never done this before), is that I have another bitch who has puppies that are about 2 weeks old and only 2 puppies. She is a great mom who has had 2 litters and like my other girls, have never seen her lay on a puppy and is very careful. I know if I put these newborns with her, she would be wonderful with them, but I don't know how it would effect the bitch who is laying on them.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Haven't gotten more than 45 minutes of sleep at a time, and now knowing I have lost two babies, and not knowing the real reason why, can't imagine I will get any tonight.
Any ideas would be great!

I had this happen before when the room was too cool for the puppies and they were crawling up so close and trying to get under her. Check your room temp. Some litters like it warmer than others.

Let her raise her own pups...it would mess her up to take them away now...pull mom out whenever you want to sleep but keep her penned or crated where she can see them...you mostly just need to watch her when with pups...if she is a calm girl...she is probably just sleeping really hard and doesn't feel the pups go under her...in a week or two, they will be bigger and she will feel more rested....give her the extra attention for the week and let her keep her pups. Even your "diligent" mother could squish one...there is no guarantee that she wouldn't. These girls go through a lot for us when they have litters...I know it is exhausting, but she deserves the extra time it takes to keep her from squishing another pup.

I don't want to take her puppies from her, I would rather her be able to take her of them herself. She is a house dog anyway, because she is so calm, so being in the house isn't new for her. I am just going to take her out when I can't watch her. I will let her either say outside the whelping box when she isn't feeding them, or I will set up a crate right next to the box.
Just curious, has anyone actually been able to save a puppy that was suffocated. Both of these puppies I found were still warm, and I gave them CPR for 10 minutes, and nothing. I also gave a little Dopram under their tongue, everything I could think of to stimulate them, and nothing. I am just devastated and feel awful. With this never happening before, I guess I just wasn't expecting it.

I have revived one puppy that I found still warm, but very flat, not breathing, tongue protruding and grayish. I grabbed the puppy up, shook it a bit, "accordioned" it like you do when helping newborns get breathing, and did this maybe 5 or 6 times. The puppy gasped, waited a few seconds, gasped again and again, then started breathing and then crying. I put the pup back with the mother dog and that puppy did survive.

BUT, and isn't there always a BUT, that puppy had seizures of a petit mal type - not losing conciousness, but stiffening and falling over that started by about 8 months. I feel it was caused by the oxygen deprivation when laid on by the mother dog.

So although our first instinct is to resuscitate, maybe it's not always in the best interest of the puppy or the family who eventually would own the puppy?

You will not hear a sound from a pup that is being laid on, just like you won't hear a sound from someone who is drowning. Do you have pig rails in your whelping box? I would not leave them unattended until they are old enough to not be laid on. You won't get much sleep. I would never keep a mom away from her pups that are under a week old except for the few minutes it takes for me to shower.

She may still be too groggy to deal with it all. At any rate let her feed the pups, put her up in a crate in your bedroom maybe and set the alarm for the 2 hour mark. Go feed, go sleep, go feed, etc through the night. If you see she is more adept at taking care not to crush them in a few days, you can relax. I would NOT take them away from her though. Better to feed every two hours until they are bigger. They are too young to really get a good squeak going if they are under her right now.

I've had this happen when the pups were two weeks of age. Found puppy cold and flat. This was a great mother, pig rail, healthy babies...everything textbook. Some girls just aren't careful. Some tiptoe around the babies and never step on anyone before they lay down. Other just plop down. I have a plopper. I just have to watch her constantly. I would lock her out for a couple of hours or so here and there so you can relax and rest easy.

I saw a bitch sit on a puppy right in front of me, the puppy made 1 or 2 muffled cries before I could get the bitch off him. I picked him up, checked him out and put him back on her. He immediately started nursing, so I thought he was fine. Went to check on him 20 mins. later and he was dead. Picked him up and tried to revive him and could not. I had him autopsied and his chest was full of blood, and my vet said a major blood vessel like the aorta had ruptured when she sat on him and that there was nothing we could have done.
I vote for crating this bitch for a couple hours near her puppies so you both can get some sleep. Make sure they are warm enough, put a thermometer in the box and with whatever heat source you have (heat lamp?) make sure the temp stays within 75-80 degrees.
My second suggestion would be, next time to autopsy the puppies so you know for sure that it was suffocation or injury. We are assuming she laid on them, but there may be something else going on. You also may not be hearing the muffled cry underneath her body, it's pretty subtle at this age.
I'm so sorry for your loss...sounds like you are putting yourself through a lot and both you and your bitch deserve a break. Crate her and set your alarm for every two hours so both of you can get some rest. Your bitch is not getting any sleep either with being awakened every 45 mins and both of you are exhausted.

completely agree with this poster. Good luck to you all.

The pups that get squished don't have time to make any noise. It happens so quickly as we found out for the first time with our June litter. I was sitting maybe 4 feet away, working on the computer while momma dog nursing her 2 day old puppies. We lost one of the male pups. I tried CPR to. While he wasn't flat, he definately had suffocated. He couldn't have been stuck under the mom for more than 10 minutes when this happened.
That same day my husband put in 4 inch pvc pig rails in our 5 foot wide swimming pool. I think it did make a difference but those rails are not a guarantee that a puppy won't work it's way around and under the dam's body and then the dam lay all the way down. Our girl was a first time mom and very ansty. I tried taking her away from her pups at night but she would howl and carry on like like a crazy loon. No one in our house hold could get any sleep when I would crate her for a couple hours so we could get some sleep at night. I finally gave in and just let her be with her pups and prayed we wouldn't wake up to any more squished pups. She never did lay on any more of her pups but I did manage to pull some out from under her during the day time here and there. I was never so happy when these pups turned 3 weeks old and I could take our girl away from her pups at night time. How do you go 3 weeks without any sleep when the pups are born ? You can't survive on 2 hours of sleep here and there for 3 weeks and still be a rational person
I feel a baby monitor is a false sense of security so I've never bothered to buy one.

It is OK to remove mom from the litter while you get a couple of hours sleep. Just make sure they are warm enough. She should settle down in a day or two and be fine.

I agree with other posters - puppies being suffocated obviously can't cry for help. Baby monitor won't help you there. You will need to be able to visually monitor the situation until she settles. I recommend putting her with the puppies under supervision every couple of hours until you feel she is safe with them. After they have fed and and gone back to sleep, remove her if you can't keep an eye on things.

This way you can avoid losing more puppies or taking them away from mom.

Are the puppies piling up with each other or are they spread around the box? If it's too warm in the room they will spread out which makes it harder for mom to lie down safely. I don't agree with the other poster that suggested to make the room warmer - I think the room needs to be cooler so the puppies pile up together and leave mom free space to lie down.

I want to say thanks to everyone that responded to my post. I appreciate the time you all took to respond and try and help us out. Having never had a puppy die like this in the whelping box, I am of course just beside myself and just feel so guilty to have left her. I thought the first night was just a fluke thing, and that giving her another whole day to get used of them would help. I should have NEVER left her unsupervised the second night for even 45 minutes with them. I guess breeding for 10 years and never seeing it, If i have learned anything from this hobby is that there is a first for everything, good and bad. I do have pigrails up, have used DuraWhelp boxes for all my litters since day one. they have lovely pigrails, and I guess since my bithes are always one that tiptoe around their babies, I just thought we were safe with pigrails and this bitch, being super calm and relaxed.
We have been sitting with her all day today, letting her in and out to feed, but she has been in pretty much all day under our supervision. I have a tv and DVR in with her, so it helps pass the time. Tonight I am going to put a crate outside the whelping box, take the door off so she can watch them from her crate, and do that for 2 hours and then get up and feed. We will see how that goes. I do feel better to know that this has happened to people sitting so close to the box and not sleeping and that there is no warning. But I still feel awful about it.
I do however thank everyone for your responses and for all your help and empathy. I know we all give up and go through so much to have these babies, but I try and think about what our girls go through for us and that helps me really go the extra mile for my girl.

Yep, it happens and does not have anything to do with the bitch being a good mom, I feel. They just get to sleepy that sometimes they just fall asleep especially if they are nursing sitting up. We always make the moms stay down. We do not take the mom from the puppies, we just do shift work and someone stays in the room watching 24 hours for the first few days or even a week. I have lost several from different because I fell asleep on the job, but with two of us, we just take turns while the other sleeps. We also lost one because someone came to the door and the bitch jumped from the box and stepped on a puppy. Lost that one, so now we put a sign on the front door to call but don't knock or ring the bell. Ellie

I don't leave the box unattended for the 1st 2.5 to 3.0 weeks but I have helpers. We plan a litter so the family members that help are available.

I have an outdoor chaise lounge with thick cushions next to the box for dosing next to the whelping box. My hand hangs down right near Mum and babes. After that we've been fine 'cept 1 incident that I beat myself up over. It takes 5 minutes or less of unattendance for it to happen. :-(

At 3 weeks, pups make enough noise & are large enough to move well. I come running if I hear a drop of a squeak. I do take Mom out for a good break every 2 hours. We do meals, walks or loving time. I have a nice cushy bed for her right outside the whelping box with an x-pen around the box in-case I need to leave the whelping room.

As Ellie said, with 2 people alternating, it's lots easier. I alternate with my spouse and my teenager on weekends. We all take 2 hour shifts and I get the daytime hours being a stay at home Mom 'cept the weekend.

Some breeders just go to bed early, sleep 8*10 hours and say *what will be, will be*.......... Huh? I just don't think it's a good breeder that does that. Some of the ones I've heard say that have several litters on the ground at the same time......... all the time.

OP, do you mind a few ideas? Do you have something you can sleep on to get you thru the first 2*2.5 weeks? If you have a lightweight box, you could bring Mum and babes right into your bed room when you want to sleep. Another option is to take Mum out of the box when you're sleeping as mentioned before. Crate her or x-pen the box and let her lay right outside it.

Good luck with your Mum and babes. I feel badly about your losses.

This is why I like a small heating pad - you don't have to guess. Pups will all crawl on pad if they are too cool. I put heating pad in corner closest to where I approach box. Moms sleep in back corner.

Pig rails made of flexible pool hose or whatever and taped on sides or made of PVC on little PVC feet is a must with new moms.

OP- so sorry for your losses! Hope you can figure something out.

I have one bitch that tiptoes around her puppies and squeezes right next to them, she's so careful with them. I never had to worry when she had her puppies. I also have a plopper that just plops down where she stands.... it's more difficult to deal with those bitches.
I have a question though. Has anyone experienced that a pup that has been laid down and does not suffocate but is gasping for air for couple of hrs until it dies? I tried everything with him, did CPR, did rub him and when he was dead blood colored foam and mucus came from his nose and mouth. Could that be from mom sitting or laying on him?

I am one of those "bad" breeders who does not stay with the litters 24/7. I do not have family members to help, and I have to take care of my other dogs, shop, and earn a living, besides getting enough sleep to keep functioning. I have been breeding for 26 years and have had exactly one puppy die from being lain on, and I was right in the room at the time, having checked on mom and pups less than 10 minutes before. It is devastating to lose a healthy puppy, but accidents do happen, and I suspect that many puppies who are lain on die not from suffocation, but from rupture of the lungs, which is why they have blood in their mouths or noses, as my little girl had. So even if you can get them out from under the mother right away, they could die.

Puppy lungs are very fragile. The only other time I lost a puppy that was more than a day old, a little guy 5 weeks old choked on his food. Again, I was right there and was able to get the puppy breathing again (it was completely limp) by applying pressure to its chest. I got it to the vet, and she used forceps to remove the food particle, but the puppy died anyway because I had put too much pressure on the lungs while I was trying to shift the food so it could breathe. That happened three years ago, and i still relive it wondering if I could have done anything differently to save the puppy. But I learned how fragile a puppy's lungs were. I'm sure an adult dog would have survived what I did to dislodge that #$%^ piece of kibble.

BTW, the girl who lay on her puppy, helped me as I tried to revive it by licking it, etc. She was a "flopper" and had a first litter of 10 puppies. After the puppy died, she was much more careful about lying down.

Question to the OP. Is it possible that your whelping box is too small for the litter? I have a box that is 5' X 6', and the puppies are usually in a corner of he box near the heat so that mother can lie down comfortably without endangering them. Pig rails are, of course, essential.