I have a litter of 5.5 week old pups. Today I noticed one boy had a sticky neck. I cleaned/dried it off and his skin is inflamed and oozing. And it has that lovely 'wound smell'. NO open sore, no abrasions, skin is just swollen and oozing. A few crusty spots are higher on the neck. Once again no puncture bites or scrapes, just crusty spots. This happened somewhere over 36 hours. Then I noticed near his nostril was (VERY subtle) swollen on one side and thin crusty layer (almost like a layer of skin crusting off). I took him to the vet. If it was an older dog I might have guess hot spot. But my vets concern is the crusty spot near the nose and the crusty up the neck. We also thought after moving his fur back that there was a little bit of crust under his one eye. Vet thought to be safe we should treat for strangles. Dr thought it might be a very mild case at this point. I have a course of Prednisone to be weaned down total 12 days. Clavamox and a topical cream for the neck area. We are taking a shot in the dark. There is no open wounds, red area, punctures, scratches. Just weeping and swollen, inflamed skin. I know it bothers hims as when i touch it he wiggles and the he tried to scratch it (his little legs don't reach that far yet). What do you think? Sound like an unusual case of strangles to you?

Came home and started REALLY looking hard at the other siblings: one has a single small pimple on the chin near hair follicle, one has a single pimple near her whiskers. I didn't think anything of it the other day, just figured it was an infected hair follicle. Another pup look very very slightly swollen at the nostril, just one side. Called the vet, and we are just going to watch these pups. Maybe I'm paranoid : )


Vaccines- I was going to vaccinate at 6.5 weeks since many of my dogs show and my area of the country has had high cases of Parvo. How long after the pred is done do I need to wait to vaccinate the one pup?

I have had puppy strangles once and your description sounds like it to me. Vets don't see many cases of puppy strangles and are slow to recognize it in the general pet population. I would bring the possibility up to your vet. Hate to say ASAP, but puppies can die from puppy strangles very quickly. He'll need steroids and antibiotics as soon as you can arrange it.

We are treating the affected pup with a short course Prednisone (2 weeks) and Clavamox in addition to a topical ointment to the neck area. This just isn't a textbook case so was curious for input. Thank you for your help.

sounds textbook to me

I like the sound of your vet. He noticed it and felt it was strangles immediately. Alot of vets don't. As I read your post I was wishing I had a vet as good as yours.

I would go with his treatment. If pups need more medication I'm sure he'll add to the 2 week protocal.

I hope all your pups are okay but feel fortunate your vet was on top of this as you are.

Thanks everyone. Since the main affected area is the neck, thats why we were apprehensive at first. will have to keep an eye on the others.

Am I ok vaccinating the other pups? How long after the pred is over do I need to wait to vaccinate the boy with strangles? The vet still wanted to vaccinate at 6.5 weeks since parvo counts are high here, and seemed to think we only had to wait a couple days after the pred for the other??

Your puppy's immune system is out of whack so I wouldn't vaccinate until the Puppy Strangles is gone and he's had a chance to recover. Did your vet aspirate the fluid in the puppy's neck? My puppy had the same and was a lot more comfortable once the fluid was gone.

We're having a really bad year for parvo here. It's a tough call, because with the immune suppression of the treatment for strangles, the virus could have a field day if he were to be exposed. I suppose you could run a titre to see if he still has maternal immunity?

It wasn't clear from your post, but for this litter especially, discuss doing just a straight parvo vaccine rather than a combo.

Can I ask what area of the country you are in? There seems to be a lot of strangles in litters in the NE, I am wondering if you are in the same area, or a different part of the country

yes, the mid Atlantic region to be more specific.

No they did not drain the area. The skin was thick and swollen, not sure if anything would have actually aspirated out? He has had 2 doses (pm/am) of Prednisone and the swelling in his neck is already down and minimal oozing. Just amazing the things we will see as the years go by in this hobby...

I am really torn what to do about these vaccines. Pups have been weened almost 2 weeks now so I like to at least do the other pups. I am gonna try to research more how long to wait after the prednisone before my sick man is vaccinated.

I would call Hemopet and see if they can give you any ideas. Dr. Jean Dodds knows about immune problems. You can titer pups to find out when maternal antibodies decline. Meanwhile, anyone in or out gets a good ole bleach water footbath, and don't have deliveries from kennel supplies/feed stores if you are only buying dog food, not livestock feed.
For a newborns orphaned without colostrum, we'd give plasma from them. Sometimes they have local vets spin down the dam's plasma. Her immunity could possibly extend their immunity, if I didn't muddle the science on this.

Phone: (714) 891-2022*
Fax: (714) 891-2123
e mail: hemopet@hotmail.com

I would worry that if you vaccinate the others, you might throw their immune systems into strangles, especially with the pimples you describe. However, if Dr. Dodds said to vaccinate, I would do it.

Also, please make a donation to her research for her help. A consultation is nominal. Let us know what she or her staff says, if she is on vacation. Thanks!

I would be sure the affected pup is 100% prior to vaccinating.

If the other pups are fine (although you mention a couple of others with pustules) they should be fine to vaccinate but dbl check with your vet.

Giving just the Parvo as mentioned may be the way to go at 6.5 weeks or can you wait till 8 weeks (but not the effected pups) and keep the pups away from your show dogs?

Hoping this clears up quickly.

Link to article
http://devinefarm.net/rp/rpplasma.htm
Passive Immunity for Neonates and Management of Viral Diseases
More for orphans and if the pups GET parvo, but it gives you the idea.
Plasma keeps a LONG time in the fridge 's freezer, better in a deep freeze, and is a good idea to have before whelping a litter. A friend and I have one vial between us. It is not expensive. I just don't know if these pups are too old for this.

However, Dr. Dodds would be the expert on this, managing immune problems and telling you when to vaccinate.

Good Idea. Call Dodds. I have emailed her in the past and she is quite quick to respond.

I would contact Dr. Dodds also. She's brilliant and I have the utmost respect for her.

Strangles is supposed to be caused by an immature immune system. I've personally seen it in an old time breeder's lines repeatedly that isn't in the breed anymore. This breeder knew where it began, with which stud dog and claimed the boy produced it in half of his litters. The dog was still bred until he passed. So can it be heartier in a specific line or dog?

Added factors like vaccinations could push it over the line. The other way to look at it is, the time strangles usually shows its head is around the timing of vaccinations.

I wonder if the breeders that do absolutely no vaccinations who have had pups die of parvo, have seen strangles or does it skip their pups that are never vaccinated. That would be interesting to know.

An anonymous poll could be done and might prove to be interesting.

OK. Because I am going through this right now...YES it sure sounds like Strangles. Treat with the 12 day regimen. I have been having a nightmare trying to get my pups better. My vet was screwing around with too low a dosage of Dexamethasone which has prolonged the illness severely. I just demanded to try the 12 day start to finish regimen with Pred and Clavamox and we are on day 4. Hope this works.

I would NOT vaccinate the seemingly well pups for a few weeks if possible.

I am sorry you gang is so ill. My pup's oozing and swelling was better after 24 hours of Pred. Its been 2 full days of meds and he is back to normal with minimal swelling and no oozing.

I have been watching the other pups. The two with the small pimples seem to be reabsorbing on their own? No one else has had any oozing puss or major break out. Hopefully I am a rare instance that we will have one mildly affected puppy. Waiting to hear from Dr Dodds regarding vaccination.

I have a few questions directed to breeders that have experienced strangles. How long do you typically treat your pups from start to finish and what dose do you start at say for 18-20 lb. pups? Say those pups still have eruptions after 5 weeks on Dexamethasone/Clav and now weigh 24-25 lbs. What do you do? I decided to get the pups off the Dex and put them on pred. and do the 12 day regimen along with Clav and Glucosamine/Chondroitin. My vet really didn't have a choice as I said I was mentally and physically fried, have spent close to $2,000, and this was the last straw. This consists of 3 days of 15mg. pred 2x daily and Clav 2x day. Next 3 days 10mg. pred 2x day, Clav 2x. Next 3 days 10mg. pred daily. Last 3 days 5mg. pred day. I add Glucosamin/Chondroitin 1x a day. Does this seem logical to do if after the 5 weeks on Dex and starting to wean off they begin having eruptions??? I am at a loss and losing hope they will ever get better. My puppy people are very frustrated, but hanging in there. What do I tell them...I don't know when this will be over? I don't think one couple is willing to wait another cycle of meds and I don't blame them. I get virtually no sleep with 4 sick pups. They eat their own poo and pee all the time even though they get out a gazillionx a day and I clean their crates and x-pens every 3-4 hours and do 10 loads of wash a day. I wouldn't be doing all this if I didn't think they were worth saving, but what will be left of these poor things after so many weeks on all these awful drugs? They look like walking manatees. Is it normal to see a few more eruptions after the course of steroid is done, or must you start the whole kit and kaboodle all over again? I guess what I'm asking is, how do you know when it's really over??? I'd like to know why the 2 pups I sent to their homes right after the shots have not come down with strangles and the ones that did all had connections to an already sick puppy? The ones that became ill did so one by one and all were exposed to the first sick one. Why is strangles considered non contagious. Are they really certain about that? I find it hard to believe there isn't some contagion involved.

You are NOT paranoid. Get them treated now. Good luck. I'm having my first and hopefully only go of it with 4 pups and my co-worker has 2 that got it also. That is 6 of 8 in my litter!!! I'm in the NE and it's especially hot, humid, buggy and rainy this summer.

I took your advice and emailed Dr Dodds. She actually CALLED instead of emailing back. What a nice person she is. Anyway she said that with the pup being immunosuppressed by Prednisone, I do NOT want to vaccinate the other pups, with fear they could shed the parvo virus and infect my little man. His last dose was just shy of 8 weeks, she advised to wait for everyone's vaccines til 9 weeks.

I am glad she rang you instead of just emailing. She obviously felt it was important to let you know.

It sounds as if you will follow her advice.

I hope your pups get well quickly.

On my repro vet list we were recently discussing Strangles and the most interesting thing I got from it is that there were several of the repro vets (some board certified) who hadn't seen a case of strangles in a few years. So it is NOT common and there are many general practioner vets who would have very very limited experience/knowledge of it.

Unfortunately I have seen 4-5 cases in the past year or so. I have to say that I treated each litter and each puppy a little different, so the posts from folks asking for specific protocols aren't really easily answered. There is not a "strangles protocol" out there in the literature. For me it depends on the severity of the individual puppy. I have had 3 litters where 1-2 pups had the lymph nodes abscess vs the other litters had the more classic pustules on the muzzle. I tend to treat a little more aggressively since I've gained more experience with it (but have to say it is NOT easy to tell someone to put their 4 week old puppy on immune suppressive doses of prednisone!!!). I hold off on vaccines until off pred and healthy.

Thats great. I knew she would respond quickly. great that she called you.

Prayers your pups keep improving on the meds and all will turn out fine.

Wendy, Can you tell me if it is normal to have a few small pimples after the pred. has stopped, or would you put them back on it? Will the pup's immune system kick in and fight off the last of it, or should every last pimple be gone? Thanks for any help. Never been through this before and hope to _od never again.

In your case you know your pups had/have strangles, but my question is can a puppy just have a pimple? Three of the littermates have had a single pimple (whitehead) on their muzzle. It never progresses to a discharge and goes away on its own. Another popped up, but once again, never progresses. I really do not want to put these other littermates on Pred just for a single pimple!? I too was hoping that their immune system would kick in and just naturally fight it...

I wish a DVM/university would do some research on juvenile cellulitis and develop a protocol.

"common things happen commonly"... LOTS of puppies have juvenile/puppy pyoderma/staph... NOT a lot of puppies have strangles. I see a lot of individual puppies with a mild puppy staph and treat appropriately (sometimes that is benign neglect, sometimes a topical treatment, sometimes an oral antibiotic)... it depends a little on the overall health of the puppy, severity of the pyoderma, number of littermates involved, etc. Anyone who has had/seen strangles will tell you it is a *distinct* difference from the mild staph pyoderma that puppies frequently get.
As far as what happens when the pred stops... depends a little on the overall improvement, how long was the pred course, etc. I'm not sure I'd be stressed about one pustule... but I haven't seen your puppy.

They've been on the meds for 5- 6 weeks today and the boy has a late onset pimple on his lower eyelid and a few very small ones in the corner of his lip. One of the other girls has a few tiny pimples in her ears and some flushing and 2 very tiny pustules in the corner of her lip. They are due to be done this Friday with the meds. Would you keep them on and perhaps rev it up a bit and then decrease again shortly? I'm confuse because they all looked like it was clearing up for a good couple of weeks and them...bam, a few more pimples! Yuck, I HATE strangles.