I have a OFA hips good elbows normal bitch.
She was bred the first time to a stud with the same clearances and had one severe HD and several elbow issues. It was a line breeding.
The second time she was bred to a OFA hips fair elbows normal stud. Since I kept most of the litter till a year old I decided to prelim them. All had hips good and all had elbow I or II and one had FCP. This was not a line breeding.
Can someone elighten me on what I should do or not do for breeding better elbows?

Given that HD/ED is polygenic and the small amount of information you shared....I would suspect your bitch pedigree. But not knowing what pedigree you are working with, who you line bred on or outcrossed with...really hard to give definative answers.

Have you talked in depth to your mentor? They might be able to help you work through your pedigree and give some insight.

I refuse to name any certain lines but I will say that on both pedigrees they are OFA hips good and one excellent for 4 generations up. As for elbows I can only trace up to 3 generations as alot of breeders then did not do elbows.
I am thinking it is in her pedigree somewhere and that is why I outcrossed as suggested by my mentor. I felt it was worse.

I did not ask you to name names. I simply said that it is impossible to give advice given where you posed the question. Given that we have to talk in generality's it is impossible to give really useful advice specific to your situation.

One thing to keep in mind is that OFA only reflects those dogs that were submitted...it is as useful as the information that is contributed. So while dad and mom may be passing...were any of their littermates? How about your girl's littermates?

One option is choosing a sire that comes from a pedigree that is known for producing sound orthopedics. Not just a dog that comes from 4 generations of passing dogs but a dog that comes from a pedigree that produces less incedences of HD/ED than the norm. There are pedigrees out there that produce higher incendences of ortho issues and there are ones that produce lower incedences. Of course you might be trading off for another issue so it is important to approach with eyes open and learn along the way.

The other option is to retire your girl. Not all dogs are good producers...whether that is reflected phenotypically or genotypically.

Have you reviewed this publication?

http://www.offa.org/hovanart.pdf

This explains better what I was trying to get to.

Good luck.

Another option may be to keep the pups below "breed ring" weight, like the dogs were in the 70s and 80s. Granted, that may not allow full genetic expression of the joint issues, but it is one environmental thing that can be controlled while one breeds into a strong joint line, with vertical AND horizontal pedigrees analyzed. I am not sure that all Labs don't carry for HD, if one packs on the pounds and exercises like a weekend warrior, the way some pet people do. Additionally, one may want to use a line that is also Penn Hipped with good results.

Thank you so much for the link.

First, I would have the bitch x-rayed again to see if there is DJD in the elbows. I have seen some dogs that had clear elbows when younger, but the elbows degenerated with age. Those dogs were re-evaluated because their production record was not good. I would say the same about your girl.

I have had the same thing happen with hips - clear at age 2 and dysplastic at age 4. The proof is in the whelping box. If the dog is producing a problem, then it is time to re-evaluate or remove it from your plans.