Labrador Retriever Forum
Has anybody ever been to a Labrador Speciality where they open Obedience/Rally to All Breeds..
I have not and I think A Speicialty should only be Breed Specific..Any Feed Back On This ...
The answer is no - if they did it wouldn't be called a "specialty" - that's what a specialty is .. "breed specific".
No A Speicialty is Breed Specific for Conformation. It should be Specific for All Obecience as well....It is a Unity for "The Breed" and should be special ..
I have seen obedience and Rally entries at specialties open to all breeds and I believe it is a good way to keep these venues going. Sometimes the Labrador entry is so low that clubs have completely stopped offering obed/rally so this helps to defray costs for clubs where the entries are small with Labradors only.
There are still special HIT trophies just for Labradors and other awards for the other breeds. There are also placements just for the Labradors so that they also get recognition for the "specialty".
High Desert Labrador Retriever Club of Southern California and San Diego Labrador Retriever club have done this in the past with much success.
I believe Pioneer Valley had obedience for all breeds at their specialty. I could be mistaken but I remember seeing other breeds around the obedience rings. I guess if the Lab obedience entry is very small, they may need to open it to other breeds to make it worth while to even offer it.
I Am all for BREED SPECIFIC Speicailities... It should not be open to All Breeds...It should not be all about MONEY and that is exactly what it means to open it up to All Breeds.. A Speicalty is a Speicalty... End of Story!!
Sounds like someone got their butt kicked by another breed! Lol
I am for Breed Specific...
This is about performance not conformation...
So you would rather have obedience/rally be eliminated because not enough Labrador people enter? It is not about making money, it about offering venues that sometimes have very small entries.
Special awards are offered for LABRADORS ONLY.
It's not "all about money", it's about not losing money. If that is not OK with you, please send Your Money to the clubs so they can hold these events.
Time to become part of the real world. Specialties cost a lot of $$$ and effort to put on. Clubs need to at least break even, or they won't be able to host the specialties.
Many Labrador clubs are finding that Obedience entries are distressingly low. If the choice is between opening obedience up to other breeds or not holding obedience at all, I think it's perfectly fine to at least try to keep things going by letting other breeds participate.
I have been at Many Specialities.. and Obedience and Rally at Specialties. There is always more than enough entries and with 5 POINT MAJORS at most. I am sure the entries have paid for the clubs expense and then some...
thats funny cause the last 3 I've been to have been barely 3 point majors 
I'll just give a little insight into our situation as our club has offered obedience both ways. When our obedience was restricted to Labradors only we had an average entry of about 7. We had to seriously consider our options as we had decided as a club that is was very important to offer obedience. At 7 entries, thats about $200 in entry fees. You then have to pay building rental, anywhere from $200-$900 for an inside venue (obedience competitors in the Midwest...KS/MO/OK/NE/IA.. will only show inside), mat rental at $200/weekend if you are not showing on a dirt packed floor, trophies for all classes and then judging expenses. Obedience judges charge a judging fee, usually around $150. They are not quite as accommodating as our breeder judges who don't charge.:-) Once you pay them their fee and travel or hotel expenses you are looking at another $200 at the very least. For us it was a sink or swim decision. Once we opened it up to all breeds we garnered entries in the 50's and around 20 in Rally. Per the AKC rules, we offer special trophies just for the Labradors and HIT is offered for Labradors and all breeds. Its kind of run like two separate trials within one as there are placements in each class for Labradors and all breeds. Plus, those who are going for OTCH points have the potential of earning more points. So, it was obviously a better financial situation.
I think what is even more of a travesty is the potential of not offering obedience at all, which is the route many clubs are taking....understandably. Think about that. Yes, conformation is the main crux of our entry and where money can be made. But, it is nice to offer obedience so that we can see our wonderful breed work. Its just another way to show their versatility. There are more and more clubs going this route because of expenses. I see nothing wrong with it if it allows Specialty clubs to continue offering obedience to their exhibitors.
If the folks putting on the event are all in agreeement and if by opening it up to other breeds who likely train with the Lab owners anyway, and if AKC or CKC permit it and will issue a permit for other breeds to take part in obedience put on by a specialty club, I don't see what the issue is. I could see people having issues with it if it were open to doodles and other mongrels, but come on, many of us work and train with these folks, help each other out at our shows, belong to the same all breed clubs and together, we enjoy the fancy. As someone pointed out, it's performance, not the conformation side of it. It's easy to sit and make comment, but until you've tried to put on a show, and keep a show alive, you really have no idea how open minded we must begin to be, if we are to keep our shows happening, despite dwindling entries. For many, especially in remote areas, folks might not otherwise have access to an obedience venue, whether for Labs or other breeds.
I personally wouldn't have issue with it, if it were only obedience/rally. Something has to help fund getting the judges in and if there aren't enough Labs then Lab-obedience folks will suffer, so why not open it up to others, if the majority of the club members are ok with it?
You don't know what you are talking about.
I belong to a club that holds a 5 pt major every year. We work hard to keep expenses down but unfortuately things like tent rental, site rental, etc keep going up. Also, we try to get well respected breeder judges from outside our area to judge. This costs extra money for travel (since breeder judges usually judge for free.) we hold a raffle, get a sponsor, trophies are donated, etc. to keep costs down.
Last year my club lost money on our specialty and we were not frivolous. We strive to hold a nice specialty to showcase our breed and that all will enjoy - exhibitors, judges, stewards, and workers.
Also, we have a very low obedience entry. It is hard to get workers for obedience and unlike breeder conformation judges, the obedience judges get paid.
You should not make inaccurate statements about things that you clearly know nothing about.
Do you belong to a Lab club? Do you volunteer at a specialty so others can enjoy? Do you donate money to the club to help offset the large cost of running a specialty? Have you read the treasurer's report on club specialties in your area???????
Our club just about breaks even with the show every year and our obedience entries are very low. It is what it is. Having said that I would still hate to see Specialty obedience opened up to all breeds. It is a breed specific Specialty and it should be kept as such.
If not kept breed specific it isn't really a "Specialty" anymore.
A Labradors specialty is a Labrador specialty. Lets keep it that way.
Yes. Let Us Keep it That Way!...
Every Club should promote obedience Try more Matches and Show and Go's ... It is not just about Conformation... At a Specialty Obedience should be Breed Specific as our conformation ring..
Maybe your club should ENDORSE more Rally and Obedience Matches. to get club memebers involved in this spectrum of the show,,,
Drop all Specialities and Just Do All Breeds.........NOT.... It should be seperated in both conformation and obedience..
Clubs have been holding breed & obedience matches for years and years.
Enjoy your newbie-ness. After you've been in this for a good while, you will discover how little you really knew in the beginning.
So whats better...to have a growing number of Specialties without obedience or to have Specialties with all-breed obedience so that they can at least offer performance events? For some its just not sustainable, and some of these are decent size Specialties that pull 120-150 conformation entries while pulling obedience entries (Labs only) with less than 15 dogs. If you demand Lab specific obedience these clubs will continue to lose money and some day be gone. I'm sure you would be complaining then.....
Obedience interest has fallen dramatically in our area the last 10 years. We have discussion every year as to whether to have it or not at our Specialty since the entry is so bad. It wouldn't be the end of the world if we were to omit it.
I personally would rather a Specialty be just that. Kept breed specific for us.
I understand and respect the desire to keep a specialty "special" and limit entries to Labs. I have served as the obedience chairperson for Huron River LRC for several years. Like many clubs, we have had small Lab entries in obedience. It is difficult to justify keeping it with the low entries, and as stated by another poster, few club volunteers to help run it as well. Face it, many Lab clubs are primarily conformation orientated so often the working aspect is under-appreciated by the majority of club members.
As our fall specialty is held at the same site and on the same day as many other breed specialties, and in order to save costs, we have elected to share a judge between several breeds. Breeds are intermixed when running classes and during group exercises. However, placements are done within each breed i.e. Labs only compete/place against the other Labs, Schnauzers only compete/place against other Schnauzers, etc. I think some years there have been obedience trials for 4 or 5 breeds all sharing the same judge. Expenses were prorated based on the number of obedience entries each club received.
It's been a good compromise so that we are able to retain obedience at our specialty.
Same person?
What is the big deal? Just because your dog *may not* be in obedience doesn't mean breeders should be shut out due to lack of entries. I see nothing wrong with opening up that part of a Specialty to other breeds. I'm there for conformation but I don't mind other breeds there for obedience and rally if the no.'s aren't high enough to run this part of the show.
Our region's Labrador club holds a Specialty each year which includes the conformation Specialty, as well as all-breed obedience, rally and working certificate. If we offered only breed specific obedience, rally, and working certificate events, we would not have enough entries to pay for these events, not by a long shot! To some, competing in the performance events with their Labs is very important to show their versatility. This is obviously not as important to most, judging by the lack of performance titles behind the names of the show dogs entered. In our region, entries for performance events has declined, and this is not a matter of the club not stepping up to the plate and offering training days and classes. Personally I think it is people's lack of time and/or commitment, and the economic slump which has contributed to this decline. Many people are just not willing to spend the hours of training involved to compete in obedience or other performance events.
At our recently held specialty and all-breed obedience trials, in FOUR trials we had THREE Labs competing! There is no way our club could offer Labs-only obedience, just not enough money to pay the bills, and I think that anyone who is very involved in organising these events would know this. And active club members would also know that clubs these days are struggling, and certainly not putting on shows to "make money".....
I can see it now...HIT and HC awarded to a Labradoodle at a Lab Speciality!
You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else in America. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else in America. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
It may be the end of your story, but others have their thoughts to share too.
I would rather open up Obedience/Rally to other breeds at Specialties so that Labradors have the option of participating in obedience than not offer obedience all due to financial reasons - that would not be "special" for those Labrador folks (many of whom are our puppy buyers) who are only able to participate in performance events.
The more we can do to promote this breed as the working breed it is, the better. If a club does not need to open entries to other breeds to be able to offer obedience, great.
Isn't Bare Bones open to all breeds on obedience? I thought they were, but only gave the trophy to the highest scoring Labs.
Ok Maybe we should have Labrdoodles in YOUR Specialty Conformation Ring!
RED and Oh, Doodle dogs aren't an AKC registered breed and we're talking about AKC Specialties. I know you're trying to use some sarcasm but if you said a Rhodesian Ridgeback I might have laughed. Doodle dogs don't make me laugh. It's a nighmare.
I don't understand what the big deal is. My DH is reading this on another computer on the other side of our family room. He attends 3 or 4 shows a year maximum to support me and the dogs. He can't understand what's wrong with everyone tonight asking, "Are these the nice, sweet ladies I meet at the specialties?" I'm quite serious, that's word for word out of the mouth of a man that likes the lady breeders when they're not on a board.
He just said he's taking me out for ice cream. I'm *running* out the door to get away from this ridiculous conversation.
Shallow...... and I say GO DOODLE AND HIS OWNER! Or any other mixed breed for that matter! It's not the dog's fault someone produced him as not a purebred.
There is nothing finer for a dog, purebred or mixed breed than being owned by an owner who does something w/ his dog~
I am SOOOOOO with you on that one Sherry!
Oh Please....... your club"endorsing" performance events doesn't make them happen. All too often, we hear members say that "the club" should have a wc, a match etc. It appears that those members don't realize that they ARE the club. I've learned to say "that's a wonderful idea what job do you want?" And the response is usually that they're too busy etc.
I've been a show chair for many years and I would love to include more performance events at our specialty but there are not enough entries to cover the costs and no workers either.
Everyone want's to be a "guest at the Party" but very few want to organize, put it on and then clean up afterwards.
If I sound tired, it's because I am.
Just to clarify, LRCPV did not have all breed Obedience or Rally. Friday morning was Labs, the afternoon HKC had all breed O&R. Saturday Shelties shared the ring with us, but our O&R was just Labs.
Once you open the door, you may not like what comes in and then it will be too late.
I want to take nothing away from the all-American mutt. He/she deserves to train and "do things" too. There is nothing sadder than to drive down the road and see "Rex" out in the yard chained to a box and forgotten. Some of the best and smartest dogs that I have known have had unknown breeding.
Specialties are breed specific. If you open up obedience entries to all AKC qualifiers that includes mixed breeds. Dogs are not responsible for their breeding and I agree that they should not be punished.
It's the people that cause all the problems.
Imagine...here comes "Aunt Pookie" with her perfectly trained doodle to the Lab specialty. She cranks out litter after litter in her garage making the kind of money that responsible breeders only dream of. We have all been to the websites of her kind. She takes it all in the obedience ring HIT/HC and of course, she has her picture taken for brags. She posts this photo on her site (close to the pay pal button) and states falsely that AKC is on the verge of declaring Labradoodle a recognized breed. If she sticks with it long enough, she can even call her doodle an AKC champion (OTCH). This is good for her pocketbook, nevermind what it does to the Labrador breed. While she can do this at all-breed shows, doing it at a Labrador specialty gives her "credibility"
I don't feel that specialities were designed to enable this kind of irresponsible breeding.
The small number of entries in specialty obedience is a concern. Labs can have more than one front-end title. Are there even any CH OTCH dogs anymore?
For anyone who is serious about obedience, there is no shortage of shows out there. Almost every weekend there is an opportunity to show.
I know that "Rex" can retrieve the correct articles if someone will teach him how. And he will have just as much fun at an all-breed show and not be any less special.
There is plenty of irresponsible breeding amongst Labrador Breeders as well - showing purebred dogs at specialties does not make them any more responsible or legitimate.
We are fortunate that we typically get a good obedience entry at our specialty show (27 at our 2010 show, which was nearly as many as the breed entry in dogs) and have a base membership that values a working dog. It is too bad other clubs are losing the opportunity to show their performance dogs at specialties.
"Oh Please....... your club"endorsing" performance events doesn't make them happen. All too often, we hear members say that "the club" should have a wc, a match etc. It appears that those members don't realize that they ARE the club. I've learned to say "that's a wonderful idea what job do you want?" And the response is usually that they're too busy etc.
I've been a show chair for many years and I would love to include more performance events at our specialty but there are not enough entries to cover the costs and no workers either.
Everyone want's to be a "guest at the Party" but very few want to organize, put it on and then clean up afterwards.
If I sound tired, it's because I am."
What she said, in spades!
When the entries are so low that there is one dog in the Utility B and Open B classes it isn't worth the money and travel expenses to show at a lab specialty even though I would love to give my money and support to the lab clubs. Open up the entries, make money, keep the sport going, and offer lab specific prizes.
Most conformation folks wouldn't even know there were other breeds entered in obedience anyway because I have noticed that they don't bother to come watch or support the obedience ring at the specialties where I have shown.
The saddest thing to me about this whole thread is that it shows how few Labrador breeders these days are interested in preserving and proving the working ability of the breed. Getting a Rally or obedience title is cheap compared to showing in conformation. I titled three dogs up through RA without training anywhere except in my own back yard for a few minutes a day several days a week for a few months. Not all of them got the titles in three straight shows because I am a dumb klutz and do things like missing a station or doing the wrong exercise. The dogs were fine. A CD took one obedience class and three shows. I work 80 hour weeks during the school year, have a big vegetable garden and 20 acres to take care of and do field training as well as the obedience. It doesn't take that much time. If you're going to be there anyway showing in conformation, going to the show is not an extra expense. To me, the lack of obedience entries speaks volumes about the goals of Labrador breeders. Now if your dog has a JH, agility, etc. title, I'm not talking about you!
Surely this wasn't written by a grown-up?!?!
I agree with you 100%. Also in Canada, we have not opened up our shows to mixed-breed dogs...yet. So the worry about the Labradoodle getting High in Trial at a Lab Specialty would not apply here. And our club does offer additional Labrador prizes.
