As a moral obligation to others, whom do we share this knowledge with. Stud owner, yes, been told and yes, the dam owner also, but do we owe it to others using the stud dog. And well known. Or do we just say live and learn and hope other test? No slamming please, just tell me what you would do. If its nothing fine. Am the unlucky one with my dog, there goes alot of hopes.

That's silly. If it is a bitch you can breed to a clear. If it is a male, most never get used anyway.

"But do we owe it to others using the stud dog - and well known." No, if a stud dog's EIC is not posted/given, then the bitch owner better make sure he/she is using a clear bitch.

There are a lot of messy, dirty lines out there, just have to be careful and use your clearances/knowledge when breeding. In the last LQ, I counted at least 5 dogs offered as stud which have a dog up in their lines who has produced epilepsy -since it's way up my lines too, I won't use those studs. Doesn't mean those studs shouldn't be used but should be used wisely.

Thank you, just feeling quilty and didn't know what others are doing.
And to HUH, I have no clue what your breeding policys are, but I will not breed a female that might collapse in whelp. Can you picture that at 8 or 9 weeks along. No thanks, I don't need puppys that bad.

You've told the bitch and stud owners. Now they know they have to be more careful in future breedings. There is no excuse for them not to be so. And we should all remember that there are no secrets in the Labrador world. Eventually information gets out.
The sad part about EIC is that a lot of folks are breeding without knowing their dogs' EIC status. I could understand that being the case a few years ago before we knew it was a problem; but that's not true any longer.
I'm sorry about your dog. I hope you have many happy years with him despite his condition.

No excuse today to ever produce another affected. You did what you could do, let the stud owner and bitch owner know. Lets hope they do the right thing and notify the other puppy owners so they can watch out if they too own an affected. God forbid a dog should collapse while out in the middle of the pond swimming.

I'd send the results to OFA (free for affecteds if tested by U of MN lab) and to Labradata. The breeders who are studying pedigrees can at least figure it out for themselves that the parents both have to be at least carriers to produce affecteds.

What about CNM, which is fatal!

I have 2 girls who are EIC affected (with NO Episodes) from seperate lines, but both are clear on CNM

If i were to choose between the 2, I would choose the EIC

If we focus on ditching EIC carrier or affected (with No eposodes), stud dogs, we may go back to bad hips or bad elbows, type, temperament, etc

And sadly, few test for CNM.

I believe there is a special on tests at DDC; They can do both EIC & CNM at a reasonable price.

There is no research nor evidence that a bitch affected with EIC has collapsed during whelping. We have spoken to Katie at U of M as well and there is no reason an EIC affected bitch cannot be bred to a clear. Also someone was kind enough to share a month or so ago that her bitch did collapse half way through her pregnancy and still naturally delivered a large, healthy litter!Do whats best for you and yours, but dont judge others and their "breeding policies" if there is no evidence to support your stance.

I know of several adult dogs with CNM. It is not always fatal in itself, but most owners CHOOSE to euthanize rather than provide special care.



The great thing about DNA testing is that you don't have to make that choice. Using test results to guide breeding practices, the breed NEVER has to have another Labrador affected with PRA, EIC, CNM or some of the other genetic disorders that have tests available. You don't have to CHOOSE between the problems, you just have to CHOOSE to test for them and not to produce them.

What is CNM?

Centronuclear Myopathy (CNM)
You can find more information here
http://labradorcnm.com/

We all know epilepsy is still out there and we're unsure how many generations back it can take to produce it. We're missing 6 or 7 pairs for the final 25 pair testing and not one more breeder will come forward to submit a pair. Why?

At this point, I'm starting to believe some breeders don't want a genetic test for epilepsy because their breeding lines will go right into the toilet.

I don't know that I would take the chance with an affected either. What if they just haven't seen a collapse in a pregnant bitch?

I think the testing and program is too new to say they're 100% sure a bitch in whelp will *never* collapse. They haven't had it reported to them but it does not mean it can't happen.

If I had an EIC affected bitch I would not breed her but that's my choice. I'm not judging others and don't want to be judged either.

Oh, this is killing me. You know of 5 stud dogs in the LQ who carry Epilepsy???? How do you know this information? I am worried about breeding to a carrier of Epilespy, and I don't have a clue about how to know these lines? I've been around for 12 years and still don't know the carriers of Epilepsy. Please share how you know, and I'm not being ugly. This is sincere request. I don't want to go there for me or my puppy buyers.

Maybe if you posted an email or telephone # you would get answers, but no one would risk posting names on here.

PLEASE NOTE: I did not write 5 current stud dogs in LQ carry epilepsy! I wrote they have a dog UP IN THEIR LINES who most likely carried epilepsy! I do not think any of the wonderful kennels would put a dog they are sure has epilepsy up as a stud!

Of course it would not be ethical to post names of which dogs from previous generations carry epilepsy. What I do is type every name of a pedigree into several search engines and find out all I can about ancestors, including how they look, health clearances,etc. Using the search engines, I have found pet people whose pets were sired by one very frequently used stud in the past. These pet people have posted on pet forums and other postings asking about epilepsy which their pet has. That has told me the frequently used stud fromt the past must have passed on epilepsy.

Also, if you get to know a long time breeder well and they trust you not to hurt another's reputation, they will eventually share their knowledge of what lines carry what. The danger is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Unless you'd be doubling on a weakness such as epilepsy - you don't have to totally avoid that line if your dogs don't carry it.

I found out my bitch was EIC affected after she was bred, thankfully to a clear dog. She had no problem with her labor and delivery. I can only speak for my bitch. . . but I have never heard of bitches collapsing during labor.

How long have most of us heard of EIC at all? Think, really think.

Hmmm... after careful thinking and looking up dates, it has been over 13 years for me. As the cop once told me when he handed me a ticket, ignorance of the law is no excuse. We live with all our choices, including the choice to be complacent or stay abreast of current research. Life is choices.

Yes a bitch can collaspe from EIC while pregnant. I am sure I can't be the first and only one. Mine was about 5 weeks along(first collaspe that I am aware of), did not know she was affected. She was 5 years old at the time. I have to admit at first, I was taking a wait and see approach to the test. I thought at the time it was more of a field bred issue than a show bred issue. It happened while she was out playing with the other girls outside in the back, not more than 50 feet from me. She suddenly staggered and went down. She then tried to drag her self towards me. By the time I got there I laid her down for a few minutes, then picked her up and took her to the EMVET. They, or my regular vet had no clue what caused it, did research on my own, and decided to have her tested. It was the scarriest 24 hours I have ever experianced in dogs. The EmVet stayed with her all night while I worked, and all the tests done gave no answers to what caused it. She did go full term and delivered 7 healthy puppies. This was going to be her last litter and she is retired. Unfortunately, it takes something like this for me, and probably others, to make them a believer.

Every line is "messy" and "dirty". You pick your poison and do your best or you won't be breeding Labradors for very long.

[quote How long have most of us heard of EIC at all? Think, really think.[/quote]



I placed a pet puppy with a veterinarian a couple of months ago who graduated from Cornell. Back in 1998 her professor was teaching the affects of EIC and discussing this disease. I was pretty darn surprised when she told me this.

I've only been studying EIC for 2 weeks now (since my bitch collapsed). But in that relatively short amount of time, I have come to realize how long this disease has been studied and how much they do know about it. There is a lot left to learn but they have the fundamentals figured out and have for a long enough time. I am embarrassed I knew so little.

I have 2 girls rated EIC affected (with No episodes) and they have been bred previously before I did the test. They have never collasped during pregnancy or any other time.

I hear this over and over. It was not negligence on our parts. If our dogs and none of the dogs we knew of had EIC or collapses how were we to know about it. The field breeders did know much more about it and did not share in the information. Someone has to speak about it for those that have never experienced it.

Even when epilepsy is mentioned, no one wants to speak about it. Hush, hush, it will go away if we don't speak about it or send in blood. Now that is going on for a long time. EIC is something I was not aware of. I've tested all my dogs. They are all clear so maybe that's why I never knew anything. I have a batch of bdr friends in the same situation. The have no carriers or affecteds in their testing. Were we to guess this was happening when we never heard of a collapse or Exercise Induced Collapse?

For those that have epilepsy please send in the blood already so they can finish the research already. You are 100% anonymous when you do it.

This is not so. The field breeders were happy to share their experience and concerns about EIC. Unfortunately, most of the show breeders weren't interested in listening. Many still aren't.