I would like to know how judges feel about let's say a 10 year old boy who is a great handler being in the ring with a Lab in an open class.

Would they get put up if the dog was nice or would the age of the handler prevent that????

I've seen it all.

Children with no skills with nice dogs get dumped or put up.

Children who have skills handling with dogs I would never show put up and dumped.

Lets just say, the rest of us hope the judge is judging the dog and not the cute child.

I got reserve under a judge who said 'Did you see how cute that little girl was' to me. So yes, sometimes it is about the kid, and not wanting to crush their feelings.

Its supposed to be about the dog, but we all know it doesn't always work out that way.

If your child wants to handle the dogs, and does a good job, is in good control of the dog, and isn't going to interfere with the other handlers and dogs go for it!

Being a child handler is hard. I can never seem to keep the lead on them.

I was one of those child handlers a lonnnnngggg time ago.

I can tell you right now and here--they are the future of our sport. These are the people we need to encourage and get them feeling positive about our dog show world. Without the younger generation coming in, learning the ABC's, we won't have people to carry on our lines, pedigrees, and dogs. Think of it in the big picture...

I can honestly tell you, there were SEVERAL breeders here in Texas that cheering me on and supported me. First and foremost my mom who would sit ringside and always cheer me on! She was (and still is) a great coach to handling. Marge Benham-Hutchins was kind enough to one day open her kennel door and tell me to pick any dog I wanted to show and campaign--it was the beginning of my show career with Ch. Balnamores Freestyler. Of course I had my regulars at the ring, Roy Cone, Greg Lynch, Michael Parsons, Mary Feazell, Shannon Gage, Terry Ivy, Kim Livingston, and many more I am sure I am leaving out! Without this great support group as I was growing up, who knows if I would have stayed in the sport. These people would stick up for this little girl who would walk into that ring with the hopes of beating the pros and other people I had watched for years.

So, I would get your kids out there and encourage them to show. It was a great thing for me and I hope that others can enjoy it the same!

Well said Erin!

couldnt agree more Erin,

Erin you are wonderful!

I am not so sure "they are the future" of the sport. For every one who is showing their dogs now and showed as a child I bet there are at least 10+ who never showed as a child. I think it's fine if the child is interested in showing but I also think there is such a short time to be a child and be with other children doing the things that other kids do it's a shame if they are pushed into showing by "stage Moms."

Being the mother of a very successful CHILD handler, I take great offense to the term "stage mother". If children were forced into the show ring because they were cute, you would obviously see this in there handling skills. They either "have it" or they don't. You can't force talent in any avenue. For those of you who have met Carolyn, you would know that I can't make her do anything that she doesn't want to do. She is stubborn as the day is long. With being stubborn, she is also a good student, an even better human being, and yes, a fabulous handler. Her connection with the dogs cannot be reproduced. She has had the fabulous opportunity to have wonderful dogs at the end of her lead and the opportunity to work for the Howard's. I have said it before and I will say it again ...CUTE DOESN'T CUT IT IN THE KELLERMAN HOUSE". You must work hard at everything you do. Success doesn't come from being lazy.

Well said Erin! I know many Juniors that have developed into wonderful dog people in our sport. Just speaking off of the top of my head, David Vollette. Michael Silva, Jennifer Howard and probably even Norman, started as kids. The fella that won BOB with Topper at the Garden yrs ago started in Juniors.

If you don’t think Juniors are the future, you’re sadly mistaken. The juniors of today , ARE the handlers of tomorrow. The ones that are good will stick with it, and the others will find something else to do. It’s not that much different than seeing the many *breeders* that pass through the sport with say, 5 or 6 yrs under their belt and then get out. It HAS to be a passion and something that you love to do.

I feel very fortunate to have Carolyn handling ANY of my dogs. Heck, the kid does a better job with them than I do! Anyone who has ever seen me show my dogs can attest to that. (ya listening KD???) A handler I am not. It reminds me of a conversation that Annie Cogo and I had yrs ago about coming back to the judge on the down and back. Boy, did we laugh over that one!!

Does anyone seriously think I would have given Carolyn Robin to show in the breed at last yrs Potomac if I didn’t feel that she had the *hands* to handle him? Would I have sent her to Mid Jersey with Cabot if I didn’t feel that she would present him beautifully? Heck no.

Please speak to the other pro handlers and ask *them* what they think of her... you can bet you bippee that she is not winning on her *cuteness* She’s winning because she has good hands, has a good dog on the end of her lead, and handles her dogs with grace and style. She is welcome to walk into my yard at any time and take which ever dog that she would like. Besides knowing that the dog will be beautifully presented, I also know that the dog will be looked after, played with and loved along the way.

Please don't ever imply that she wins because she's cute. I've had cute kids show to me in my ring, if they have a good dog, I use them. I've had adults show dogs to me that were very poorly handled, and if they have a good dog, I find it and use it.

You need to give a little more credit to the judges that are standing in te middle of the ring.

-J

My children and I love showing together. It is such a fun hobby to do together with the dogs we love. In addition to children being the future, think of how numbers are down in so many areas. By us, shows that often used to be majors are now missing majors by 5 or so entries. When your children show with you it also increases numbers and can make the difference of pulling a major or not. With the children showing, we can run 2 of our dogs in the same class without hiring a handler.

In our area, other exhibitors and handlers have always been polite and welcoming to my children showing.

The judges we've shown under have not paid any special attention to the fact that a child was at the end of the leash. I do not think it was either a positive or negative influence on the judges. They all seemed to look at the dog (with the exception of one judge who seemed to prefer handlers no matter what breed was showing).

OP -go for it! And best of success to you and your young handler! Be prepared for your child to handle better than you do - it's a humbling experience :)

and it is a very nice complement when people call ahead or ask ringside to see if my child would handle a dog for them. Being a teenager now, there are not many junior entries- he just loves the breed ring where eyes are on the dog, not him. And there is no "cute", believe me!

Children have a choice of what they want to do. And if they don't, they should.

I was raised with dogs since I was a baby. Showing dogs and going to shows was never ever pushed on me. I took it on very quickly and was very active as a junior. But I needed to work my butt off. If I wanted to go to a show, I needed to do my chores at home. I needed to be involved in the conditioning of the dogs, and caring of the dogs. And not to expect to show up to the show and expect the dog ready for me. Many say 'I didn't have much of a childhood, because I came to become an adult too fast', but I wouldn't have changed it one bit. It made me learn what responsibility was, what it meant to respect others, and how to work as a team.

There were several professional handlers that supported me at the time, and still do. They would advise me on what I did wrong, and advise me on what I did right. And so did my Dad and the judges. There were times that I lost, and there were times that I won. And every time I walked out of the ring, I would be sweating because I really was trying to win.. and that certainly isn't 'cute' :)

I support and strongly encourage any child that has the skill and has the desire to show dogs to do it! It helps children learn responsibility, maturity, and respect. You are the future for all of us!

Good luck to your juniors!

"I have said it before and I will say it again ...CUTE DOESN'T CUT IT IN THE KELLERMAN HOUSE". You must work hard at everything you do. Success doesn't come from being lazy."

Carolyn is a very lucky young lady to have you for a mom, and friends and mentors to provide opportunities for her. I think you're all doing a terrific thing in helping Carolyn follow her heart.

The OP wanted to know how judges would feel about having a youngster handling in the open class. I certainly can't answer that one, but I truly believe only good things can come from a child's love for dogs and animals.

I came into handling and showing dogs as an adult because as a child, I showed horses. I did it without the presence of a "stage mother". If you do not have the talent and PASSION for handling and showing (dogs or horses) you will not be as successful as Carolyn Kellerman has become. What a terrific future this young lady has in front of her.

Good handlers do not come in only one shape, sex, age, or size. Good handlers work very hard at their craft and are always trying to improve.

I judged a wonderful entry last Oct. at Mid-Jersey LRC Specialty Show.
In the Best of Breed Class there was a beautiful entry of dogs and bitches. This is my thought process...When the dogs first enter the ring and I'm taking the numbers .... of course, I notice there is a junior in the ring. I then, treat them like any other exhibitor. I am judging the dogs only , not the handler. If the handler has me notice the dog and not them, the better they are .If you have judged, you will know what I am saying is true. My concentration is so intense on judging the dogs that I don't even know who is on the end of the lead.
I make my cuts...... I constantly compairing each dog to one another and then I make my decision. At NO time do I say Ahhhhh this handler is cute , I'll give her the class. That's crazy.
The junior did a great job .... I noticed her dog( not her ) and really thought it was very worthy of Best Of Breed at Mid-Jersey Specialty. At the end ... I then congratulated her for job well done. It was as good as any professional handler or breeder could have done. Her mother was very nice , too.
The juniors are very much needed in the sport of dogs... Look , maybe I wouldn't have notice how good David Vollette was, if he wasn't a junior handler first.... and he getting old.... maybe I need to start looking for another junior to handle our dogs...

I agree with you Mary S from Stillwater. I'm a mother and know I never would have pushed my young children into a sport as they wouldn't have enjoyed it. I always gave them their choice what they wanted to do or *try*.

Most of the young handlers are going to be the future of the breed. If they weren't handling dogs, they would be doing another sport or hobby. Children today need these hobbies to keep them active and to help show future colleges how well-rounded they are.

I would be very proud to have a child as talented as e.g. Carolyn Kellerman after watching her at Potomac. Not only did she handle dogs well, win best Junior Handler but I saw her having loads of fun with the other Junior Handlers. Did any of you see them having fun in the pool together? My room faced out there and I enjoyed watching them having more fun than some adults did.

Mom of 4, you obviously raised or are raising your children much different then I have. I give and gave them choices and they did lots of sports and had many hobbies. It did help them get into the college's of their choices along with scholarship monies for excellent grades and being well rounded. A good college wants to see that and will ask the applicant questions about what they did and *why*.

Congratulations to all of the Junior Handlers. Continue to do what you enjoy and most adults wish you the best of luck and enjoy watching your skills. We can actually learn from you!

I agree, if the junior wants to put in the time and hard work, it will pay off. I don't think they can be pushed to do it and if they are, it shows in the ring. They have to want to do it. They are the future of our sport.

I started off a few years ago as a junior handler in 4-H. I also went to some matches and showed in juniors and won Best Junior often. I had virtually no parental support as my dad worked 2 and 3 jobs just to support the family and my mom didn't drive. My older sister would only drive as far as the local match shows, but we were just starting out.

Unfortunately, back then, the upper age limit for juniors was 16, so I quickly aged out before I could get my own driver's license. I stuck with it anyway and have continued to enjoy the sport to this day. Without a mentor, I learned from the bottom up. Sometimes this is the best way to learn. There was no internet, webpages to browse, etc. back then either. I had to learn solely from experience.

Today I am fortunate to be coaching a lovely young up and coming junior. I've watched this bright, intellegent and very hard working young lady just keep getting better with age. I was so proud of her at her last shows that I took her out and bought her a new juniors outfit. She wore it the next day and won her first juniors class over competition. She's working with a 7 month old puppy too. Mallori you make me proud.

As for stage moms, yes, I have seen it. At the juniors ring, Mal went to talk to another girl in her class before they went into the ring. The other girl, who's mother is a professional handler, said she couldn't talk to her because her mom said so! This I find very sad. I thought the juniors were all there to support one another.

But Mal helps me take dogs back in ring when I have a conflict and beats me from time to time. She's a good kid and yes she works hard. Those are the kids who love to do it and are the future of our sport/breed. Mal wants to be a veterinarian when she grows up

As an ex-junior and now a professional handler i thank the people who led me to where i am today. I especially thank Norman, without him i wouldnt be in the wonderful world of labs!!

Nowadays, most kids want and want and dont think they have to work for it. However, most of the junior handlers i know WORK really HARD for what they want. And they are not allowed to do anything with the dogs until their school work and chores are done.

These kids are the future of our sport! Without them, it would be tough to see where our labs will be in 20-30 years....

As to the original question, if the dog shows really well for the kid, let them do it. If you think that the dog will give them the paw, then dont.

You want your dog to look good in the ring, the judge isnt the only one watching.

As for Miss Kellerman, she is a damn good handler, and she will be for many many years!

JMO Jen

Thank you for all of your kind words and thank you for noticing all my hard work. this year has made alot of great memories and many more to come with me and Cabot.

Carolyn

I haven't been on the forum for awhile and just saw this post about Junior Handlers. The attitude of Mom of 4 is the exact problem I have been facing not only as a mother of two Junior Handlers but also as Junior Showmanship Coordinator for the Labrador Retriever Club of the Potomac.

Do you Labrador people know how many Juniors showed at Westminster last year using a Labrador. ONE! the year before that there were Three.

Juniors are the future of this sport and Im telling you people that if you don't support them and encourage them like the ones did for Erin and the ones that have done so far for my daughters then you have only yourselves to blame for the lack of respect and ethics in the Labrador Breed Ring.

As far as the comment on a "Stage Mom" I am definitely not a "Stage Mom" I have been there every step of the way to encourage my girls to do what they love. I push them hard to learn responsibility. I have also taught them to make their own decisions and to live with the consequences of those decisions. In the end I know that will make them great adults as they are both wonderful kids.

This is why I have one child that has decided to continue in this sport and probably will continue for a long time to come. The other loves our Labradors but has no interest in showing. I could have pushed her into showing more but I haven't and will not. Again its her decision not mine.

The other thing I would like to point out is that Junior Handlers pay the same entry fee to enter the breed ring that you do. If they want to spend their money to show then by all means let them. They also normally have to pay another entry fee to show in Juniors which means that sometimes they pay double of what most people do at shows.

I hope that everyone in this sport will continue to encourage our Junior Handlers in and out of the ring.
You never know they just might grow up and show YOUR dogs one day.

Rebecca Coss

Well said Rebecca

Excellent post Rebecca