I am seeing some nice dogs on puppy mill pages. Another breeder brought it to my attention. I wonder how you check out someone wanting to buy an older dog with open reg. I know, not my business. Do the good breeder realizes these dogs are just bred to death. Its sad to me that money talks or are some fooled into thinking they are selling to a breeder who may show or do obedience ? Just be careful. Know who we are dealing with, right ?

A much easier solution to this is to only place older dogs who have either been spayed or neutered prior to leaving your house.

Thwack! The sound of hitting the nail on the head!

I always spay or neuter before placing any over a year that I am placing, I also only place into pet homes. Google is an amazing thing and I am guessing no one would place a dog with out knowing to whom it is going and where. As far as selling on open so they can show, I sell everything on limited and then if the folks demonstrate the desire and ability, and I see the dog and I believe it to be of show quality then I can change to full registration. I have done this twice and both times it worked out great. Now...
there is always risk, people are not always truthful and things can happen. Be careful how you say puppymill, I know a well known breeder and Judge who some call a puppy mill because the person has several litters a year, however the person does all clearances and takes very good care of the dogs. Would I have that many litters, no, but that does not make it wrong. I know someone else that has a ton of dogs, yes does most of the CHIC certifications but they bred without thought of what they are producing because they are supporting their hobby with puppy money, they also stand their stud dogs to anything. Does it make them bad people, no, they love and take care of their dogs, again not what I would do, but that does not make it wrong. We all need to do what we believe is correct and that what we can live with ourselves and stop pointing fingers and Judging what others do. To me a puppy mill is what happens when you have dogs with no certifications, no Vet care, terrible living conditions and no love at all for the dogs. JMHO

I was not talking several a year, but a month. And doing clearances does not really make it okay. And yes, I understand some live off puppy money. Think its sad and hate to see the dogs of breeders I respected being used like this. We are all so different. Just saying be careful and be aware.

Come on now ! Who really places an older dog without spaying /neutering first ??? I wonder if this is the general level of intelligence that we have placed our breed into, what is this breed coming to ?

Do you really have nothing better to do than surf odd websites to post your findings on here ? This forum has caused enough pain over the years, shall we use it for it's intended purpose ! PLEASE .

If you think someones dog is in this situations and they are unaware of it, send them a friendly email. I for one would be so grateful to find out if that happened to one of my dogs. (although I also spay/neuter before placement and only place pups on limited)

On the other hand, could they be stud puppies? Stud owners can't control where puppies go from outside bitches.

"you" can only do the best you can do?

Neutering older dogs prior to placement is a good way to do it.

Also,strict neutering agreements to pet puppy ppl you trust will neuter unless you have an agreement otherwise.

Another idea for those that are so worried about where their future generations might end up is to carefully screen ppl using your stud dogs. I think that is where alot of the "Champion line" pedigrees come from that the OP is talking about?. We have little control on where the puppies actually go that are sired by our boys

Personally not many folks use my boys so that isn't really an issue here and I have tried to not think / worry to much about what other ppl are doing. I care, BUT my own life is gonna be short enough without wasting time trying to dictate to other folks

Yes, we know about nice dogs from overproduced dog breeding facities. The odds are that you gotta get a good one among the many once in awile.

When you sell puppies, no matter on limited or full registration, your lines can go to puppy mills. People can lie to you and say that limited is fine, no interest in breeding. As soon as they get that pup, they can go to another registry, like the ACA. and get full registration. When they breed that dog on full ACA registration, they can take the pups from that litter and go back to the AKC, show a 3 generation pedigree and get full AKC registration on the pups with the AKC. The only way to stop this is if you sell your 7-8 week old pups already spayed or neutered.

I guess to some it is their only income. When I did collections for delinquent payments on directory advertising with the telephone company a few years back, the ones who had kennels listed and were behind in their payments, they would just say that they just didn't have puppy sales this year. It is nice to have a real job and get paid every week. Just my opinion on making a living on puppies. ellie

"When they breed that dog on full ACA registration, they can take the pups from that litter and go back to the AKC, show a 3 generation pedigree and get full AKC registration on the pups with the AKC."

Really? I don't think the AKC accepts the ACA as a registry. Is there specific language in the AKC rules you can point me towards that explains this, because if it is accurate then that is very disturbing.

REALLY! So mass producing dogs and having HUGE numbers of dogs to support the tons of litters they are having is OK? How does one socialize all of these poor animals??? Human contact 3 times a day is NOT enough.
Spending a little money on the parents by doing clearances is the bare minimum you think we should do to be reputable breeders.... You think this is ok? Having 6 litters at a time and not caring where the puppies go because there are soooo many! You think this is ok because they did clearances on the parents???
WOW

You'd be surprised at how many of our club members place an add for their older dogs, passing on the expense of spaying or neutring to the new owners. I always spay and neuter before placing my dogs with their new owners. Even though I screen families or persons, it makes me feel more at ease, knowing that all my dogs have been altered before leaving our house.

I agree with you and I've heard of a few breeders doing just what you're talking about. I agree it's not right but we can't stop them. We can stop them from gaining membership to clubs, not referring to them, those ways but ultimately, we can't do much more.

I keep away from those breeders, even for stud service. If they had a nice 3 year old boy for example that would do well with 1 of my girls, I still wont use that boy. I know I can find better out there and won't feed the *breeder* that is overpopulating our breed for financial gain. If we all did that and refused stud service to these people it would eventually make an impact.

Here's an easy way to avoid the problem altogether. Only keep what you can be committed to keep for the dog's life. My brood bitch was spayed after her last litter and she's not being sold to make room for the next generation. Dogs are a hobby but they are also family. And I don't sell my family off to make room for the next show potential.

I have seen some horrendous situations where people couldn't let go, and had way too many including older dogs that received no time and attention. Placing an older dog in a great pet home where they are the center of attention is one of the most considerate things a breeder can do - provided they ensure it is a good placement. I tend to place with friends, friends of friends, or previous puppy buyers who have done well by my dogs. That way I keep my numbers down, everyone here gets the attention they deserve, and the placed dog has a great retirement.

Yes there was just one such "reputable breeder" talked about on this forum a few months ago. They were caught euthanizing healthy re-homable animals at a shelter to get their numbers down.
BEWARE! They were asked to leave their club but still kept enough dogs to continue breeding on... They will keep going and I am sure that they will eventually show up at a show or a specialty when they think we have all forgotten what they were doing but it is our obligation to NOT forget, not use their stud dogs and NOT buy or refer to them for puppies.
Dogs are not livestock to be exploited, used up till they are of no need, and then euthanized!

The public is becoming more educated and we need to be diligent about who we associate with.
These are the people that make us ALL look bad.
Be vigilant and do not say it is OK!

Had it not been for some really good breeders trusting us with young but older dogs we would not have the foundation we do have. Though we are new to all this we have been good stewards of the breed and done what should be done to ensure that we fulfilled the promises we made to these breeders. Some of us are trustworthy. We may not have a big name but, we do have a big commitment.

I was curious why the authorities were not called in on that one? Talk about being cruel. Trust me I won't ever forget who that is or what they did.

Your web site does not work ?

not sure why it won't open, hit the reload this page link and it should open. Or maybe it will open if you just try again, I took out spaces. We have new puppy pictures to put on there of the Study/Ginger litter and some changes to make with new pictures of Biscuit. But again thanks to some nice people we have some dogs we are proud of and hoping for even better in the future.

www.fallingcreeklabradors.com

It opens just fine.

It looks like you started with Lily? Nice start... and I'm sorry she's gone. The picture of her with your daughter (meybe?) is what the breed is all about.

When I switched from field dogs to show dogs, I rehomed on co-own after spay/neuter and do not regret it. My sweet boy is living with a vet tech married to a hunter and lives the good life. He is coming home for a visit next week, we haven't seen him for 1 1/2 years and are so looking forward to the visit! I sold him for 1/2 of what some hunting kennels offered to pay, because I just wanted the best retirement for him. He is loved, spoiled, goes on lots of hikes, walks next to his horse on trail rides, and hunts whenever possible - ideal retirement. I can see the contented look on his face with all the photos the family sends us. More than he would have gotten had he stayed with us.

Funny thing is it took awhile before reputable breeders here would even talk to me although I've titled several dogs and have always done health clearances. I bred about 2 field litters a year. Yet some of these same breeders were great friends of the breeder who gave some of her dogs to be euthanized. I've dealt with some of her previous puppy buyers with who had elbow issues with her pups and wanted a very small personal caring breeder like myself.