I'm new to showing and have a girl that is entered in her first show in a couple of weeks with a handler. She is 19 months old and she is on the small side, just 21.5 inches at the withers (if I'm measuring her correctly). How often do dogs get wicketed and since the standard has a .5 fudge factor, would they set the wicket at 21 inches?

I hope that we won't see the return of the wicket in a ring near you OR me!
That being said, your girl meets the standard. No worries. She should not seem small in height, but maybe her substance is moderate?

First of all, at 21.5 inches, she is not small. Secondly, there is no "fudge" factor. According to the standard, an adult bitch who measures below 21" would not be tall enough. One who measures taller than 23" would also wicket out.

maybe I miss read but the standard reads...
The height at the withers for a dog is 22½ to 24½ inches; for a bitch is 21½ to 23½ inches. Any variance greater than ½ inch above or below these heights is a disqualification.

I thought the variance of .5 inch was a "fudge factor" sorry. thanks for the correction :)This will be my girls first show and I have a lot to learn.

Be glad she's on the small end, most bitches today are. I have a lovely bitch who is 23 1/2 inches exactly. I put an obedience title on her but would never enter her in conformation b/c she's looks unusual next to the shorter girls.

correction of a typo. The AKC standard says 21.5 to 23.5 inches for a bitch. A bitch would wicket out if she is taller than 24".

Why? The standard is the standard. If you don't want to use it, change it!!! I would hope that ALL judges would be willing to use a wicket because that means they judge to the rules and the standard - even if they don't always agree with either one.



I certainly HOPE her substance is moderate. Again, read the standard. Her substance is not supposed to be heavy or light - moderate is the goal.

To OP: sounds like your girl is a dandy size for today's competition.

My moderate bone is another person's light bone. My overdone or Newfie or Rottie look is another's moderate bone.

I agree, that the standard is the standard. My Labs are within the standard. In the past, the wicket seems to have been used for other statements. I like moderate, but I don't totally agree with the revision of the standard almost 20 years ago. A judge doesn't need a wicket to judge this breed, no matter how strictly one adheres to the current standard.

Honestly, if you know dogs, and you are standing in the ring, you know heights on where they come up to you on your own body, and if they look "off" in size. You don't need a wicket. That being said, I had a series of marks on one wall sweating it out as one girl grew, ver-r-ry slowly. She made it to over 21 inches, within showing standard, by 18 months. She doesn't look like a pointer, or a Vizla. She is a moderate Lab, and looks like one. Some judges like her, and others don't. Another day, another show!

I first want to say that I have no argument with you. I, too, think that moderate should not be a "dirty" word in the Lab world

People who understand the breed, its history and the standard certainly know the difference. Those who don't, need to go back to the drawing board and really learn their breed.



This is both a true and a false statement. Yes, most reasonable judges know if an exhibit is "off" in size. However, you can't just disqualify a dog because you "think" it is under/over the allowed size. You are required to use a wicket to confirm your opinion and adhere to the terms of the standard. NOBODY likes the wicket - not judges, not exhibitors, not the dogs. It is a necessary evil to apply the current rules - and I don't see any coherent movement by the fancy to change our highly unpopular standard.

Exhibitors need to understand the real terms of the standard. There is no "ideal" size given. There is no "fault" for size. Any exhibit that can measure in MUST be treated equally regarding size. Sure, every judge has some personal preference, but you can't just send a small or large exhibit to the end of the line and leave it out of the ribbons due to SIZE. You can't excuse one for size. Size is not a "fault" - it is a disqualification. If an undersized or oversized exhibit is not disqualified (using a wicket), then the judge MUST NOT consider its size in making a placement. If it is left in the ring, only its other attributes can be judged. Carefully read the standard (whether you like it or not) and you can better understand the dilemma many judges face.

I believe that one should breed toward a standard for the breed of course. But I also feel that if a lab is taller or shorter than the standard, it should be considered a fault, NOT a disqualification.
Just like missing teeth is a fault. (But that is a whole other issue.)
There is nothing wrong with putting a dog at the end of the line if the judge feels that a "Height Fault"
is greater than the dogs good points and that the others in the ring are better examples of the breed in the ring on that day. Basically that is what the judge does anyway. Picks the dog that they feel is closest to the breed standard.
Put the recommended height for the breed into the standard desciption but make it a fault if the dog is over or under. I think it is crazy for a dog to be disqualified from the ring because the wicket said the dog was off by a half inch. Yeash!

I agree with your sentiments, but until we change the standard the wicket and DQs are the only options. I like the FCI standard that gives an "ideal" size - which allows the judge to use size as one of the determining factor in placements. The AKC standard does not permit it AND a judge can be negatively evaluated if they admit to placing a dog lower due to size. Before thinking or saying bad things about any judge who uses the wicket, just realize that they are often between the proverbial rock and hard place.

I hate to see real large dogs. Tall. But I love small compact bitches. So saying would not like a dog or bitch to go over standard but a beautiful smaller bitch with everything I let slide a some.