If you breed a very nice litter and decide to repeat the breeding of the same sire to dam, what has been your experience with the second litter? Do you get as nice of pups again with the repeat breeding? Or do you often get less the second time around?

We did twice ellie

We did it with one litter as well. The first litter was definitely stronger...but it was also bigger so more to choose from. I personally probably would not do it again unless I was looking for a specific sex or if the first time around was a very small litter. I usually keep what I want to grow up from any given litter so I really would not have reason to repeat a breeding unless it was the expeceptions I stated above.

The first breeding is always better than the second and don't even attempt a third. Had an exceptional litter, did a repeat and the quality with about the same number of puppies was not the same as the first litter. Also in "Reaching For The Stars" it discusses how the first breeding is usually better than the repeat breeding of the same pair.

If the breeding produced nice puppies the first time around, why genetically would it not the second time? Ask yourself that question! I have repeated a breeding (out-cross) and actually produced nicely the first time and better the second time around! If it were a line-breeding it should be even easier to predict! Most don't repeat a breeding if they keep something from the first breeding, but if you didn't or if the pedigrees really clicked, then go for it!

Old timers may remember that Finchingfield Imp, Ivan, and Indigo came from a repeat breeding of the one that produced Finchingfield Faith and Fantasia. Also wasn't Clancy (can't think of his registered name -Davoeg Irish Gold? he won the National specialty) from a repeat breeding? I could probably come up with more examples if I thought about it. Field people repeat successful breedings all the time and advertise them as such. Serious competitors love to get puppies from repeat breedings when the older pups are showing promise.

I think the question is why you are having the litter. If you got what you wanted from the first one, do you really need or want the same combination again? It's sort of like keeping two from the same litter. (Of course, that worked pretty well for Mary Wiest with her two Lark daughters.) But if you want to eventually cross the progeny, you might be better off with another combination. If you didn't keep one from the first litter and you really liked what you sold to other people, then definitely, repeat.

I always have wondered, if the breeding worked the first time, why is there a need to repeat? Obviously there are cases that you were really hoping to run on a different color/sex. But if you have one or two really nice pups from the first breeding, why not try a different stud with similar lines or something new altogether? How will repeating the same thing again help your kennel?

Annie Cogo repeated the Abby/Arnold litter 4 times? Every litter had champions... It all depends on what you start with? Great producers will produce.

Thats absurd to think the genes wouldn't be compatible the 2nd or third time around.

Perhaps the memory fades and you imagine the greatness of the previous litter, but the puppies should be similar, its called type.

Of course, why on earth would you want to repeat twice? If you got what you needed the first time, go for better the next, not the same.

If you co-owned the bitch, had a terrific litter and had to give pick puppy (or perhaps first two picks puppies) back to the original breeder and now you get to breed the bitch again and keep what you want... then do the repeat. -especially if it is a linebreeding and don't worry about anyone asking you why :) Best of luck

We have done several repeat breedings over the years. We bred our Nikki to Lorraine Getter's boy Benjamin (Rainell's The Beat Goes On) twice. In the first litter we got our Olivia. In the second we got Calahan who is one of my all time favorite dogs. We bred Olivia to Ch Tabatha's Knight twice and got Ivy and Manny (Waterman) in the first litter, then Bentley came out of the second. We didn't see less quality or size in the second breedings.

some of the answers here shocked me........why are people breeding dogs without a clue about genetics?

ask this question.......

why would you have more than 1 kid from the same dad?
Outside of identical twins or other identical multiples isn't each child DIFFERENT?

1 sperm, 1 egg = DNA combination of an individual NOTHING to do with first, second, third, etc.......

just had to make a little rant........it just struck me as so off....like the thinking that an accident with a mutt will ruin a bitch forever.......sorry....

Now, the questions

Throughout Labrador history there are many, many repeat breedings.....to name a few; Kupros, Sandylands,Lindall, etc.. did several repeat matings with fantastic success

Oh yes,Davog Irish Gold and Silky Beau were brothers, but not littermates. Silky Beau came here and produced very well.

Mary Roslin Williams and some here made the point, gene pool/ kennel viability.......how many does a person need?

Some folks have 1 stud dog and 20 bitches(exaggeration) and breed him to them all, so.......

Bottom line, 1 mating has really nothing to do with the next.........if you think it works, for your own reasons, then have a go

I'm pretty sure the theory of breeding "down" by repetition doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Look at GB Sh.Ch. Rocheby Polkadot, product of the THIRD fling of a pretty special duo. Three times Best Of Breed at Crufts, the all time record. The number certainly seems to have worked for her. And her brother wasn't exactly an eyesore either!

And, in case someone still thinks that genes "peter out", her son Smokey was Top Labrador Sire 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008 & 2009. Then, her granddaughter, R. Purple Shades of Sandylands was Top Brood Bitch 2005, 2006 & 2009. What stamina!

James was out of a repeat breeding, Study x Moon.

I know of someone who has a Great Dane puppy who is just under a year old. Neighbor liked this puppy so much, they called the breeder and low and behold, they have another set of puppies on the ground from the same parents ready to go by Christmas Eve. I started thinking - these people did a back to back, repeat breeding of the same parents. I warned this person that these puppies may not be of same quality. Wondering if I was too harsh but think these breeders have different goals in mind. What would you think?

In defense of Mary Roslin-Williams, who recommends against repeat breedings, I don't think she was espousing the "breeding down" in repeat breedings. Her points were that you would learn more about your bitch by breeding to a different dog and that if you got what you wanted in the first breeding, there was no need to repeat. If you had an exceptional dog from that first breeding, the likelihood of getting another that was better was small. In a linebred strain like hers, litter mates were likely to be very similar in their genetic composition. The situation in very out-crossed humans is quite different! Most of us do not marry our relatives.

Our club has one of the largest membership and breeder involvement. I've seen many well known, established breeders use their own Boys, most are Champions and some are young and getting breed tested on their own bitches. There are pros and cons to continually using different stud dogs. Yes, you will be able to see what your own bitches produce by using different stud dogs and the same with letting your boys breed to different pedigree/bitches.

The down side to using different stud dogs is you allow or have the potential to allow unwated genes in your breeding program.

When I see other breeders using their boys over and over on their own girls, I don't judge them. I see that it works for the most part. They continually produce nice puppies that go into show and working homes. They produce nice pet quality pups that make their way into companion homes where they are so loved.

Whether they do it to save on stud fees, who cares ? That is their business. What's more, families who buy their puppies could care less about repeat breedings. All they care about is purchasing a well bred puppy that has a typical labrador temperament and is healthy.

I have a deposit down for a puppy from a breeding which has been repeated several times over the years, with multiple champions and specialty winners ( including WD/BOW at the national specialty )in each litter...I am excited to have a pup with such good odds of turning out super nice!

I am glad Mom and Dad did a repeat (actually threepeat). I would not be here.


And - I am MUCH better than the first two litters.