I have a family who has a 7 mos old boy just diagnosed with OCD of the hock. They say the Ortho surg told them that this is a hereditary condition and that one parent has to be a carrier.
Has anyone ever heard of this-any truth to this statement? I question if those were really the surgeons words...
Should I just refund them the cost of the puppy (no contract?
Should they do surg.?
Any advice is appreciated.

Yes, I would say that it is inherited. Had one OCD in the hock.

I did have a case of a pup that I bred, who jumped off the stairs all the time, and he got one spot on his shoulder. I do believe that this happened from the bruising from landing on his soft bones so hard. That was a lesson I learned about letting them jump off things.

I am most confused by the statement "One parent has to be a carrier"
If inherited wouldn't you need more than that for an affected?

It does come down through the lines of certain dogs. My repro vet was given a breeders future "stud" prospect (she is big into running field as well as conformation) since the dog from her lines had OCD in both hocks at 7 months. She won't tell anyone about the issues, either. Dog is semi crippled even after surgery on both hocks.

It could be genetic, it could happen if the pup grew too fast/too much bone, it could be an injury. Unless you know how the pup was raised then you can't be certain that it is genetic. Depending on how bad the OCD is, I would try crate resting the dog and leash walking to potty only for a few MONTHS! Give it joint supplements, Omega 3-6-9 and Vit C before I do any surgery.

I know the puppy was not raised right starting from injuires on hardwood floors, vet stating pup was10 lbs overweight at 5 mos, not switching off puppy food at 4 1/2 mos when asked, not crate resting when this started etc.
But, now an ortho vet has documented it is genetic...
I think I will just mail back a check-money was not the issue I just never heard the conditon being pinpointed to one carrier parent.

I wouldnt refund the money unless its in the contract. Where do we draw the line? Some breeders guarantee hips, elbows and eyes. Some guarantee just hips and eyes. What next? If the dog has allergies are you going to refund the money? What about EIC? What about heart? Do you realize there are probably hundreds of genetic issues with dogs but we dont refund for every thing.

Have the vet show you proof that this is genetic. He cant. It is just a vet and his opinion.

I have to agree with this. I just finished sending out puppies from my current litter yesterday. I had 2 scares this time, both involving kids in the 9-11 age group (old enough to know better, so I thought, but maybe not!). The one incident was purely an accident-- he dropped his puppy (already paid for) on mye tile floor while I was doing paperwork w/ his mom. :( I feel like that was my fault in a sense, as I had not told him "no lifting puppy". Fortunately, the puppy was fine after a little massage and TLC and reports are all clear from the owners today-- 3 days later. The other incident was a rather rough game of tug where the puppy actually came off the ground w/ a visiting relative/kid on the other end (parent sitting right there "watching", omg!). I've decided people don't know what is and isn't okay anymore. I've since revised my "Puppy Preparation" document to address handling and the potential impact of such types of injuries.

I'm seriously considering removing all reimbursment offers on joint issues. I've not yet had a claim, but the longer I do this, the more stupid stuff I see people do or allow w/ their dogs (like allowing jumping off retaining walls, etc), and the less I feel inclined to help.

You can always offer reimbursement if you feel there is a genetic basis to it, but I'm not sure I'm going to lock myself in anymore. Can't guarantee against stupid.

And where is the breeders guarantee on what she keeps....who does she complain to...

I have no choice, my state has a lemon law against "any genetic defect"...as a breeder you can't protect yourself from that. Great huh?
Don't get me wrong, I am heartbroken for the puppy and the family, I did all other clearances to provide the puppy the best start I could to include EIC. Who could have predicted this...I guess I'm just a bit unhappy wondering if raised properly would the outcome have been any different....

JMO of course, certainly I would refund after receiving a written diagnosis from the vet.
Over the years we have always been very liberal on refunds if there was any kind of genetic issue (we include OCD as genetic as I believe it is to some extent). Our guarantee has always been that we guarantee the health of our puppy on anything genetic condition that effects the lifestyle of the dog up to the price of the puppy. We have always felt that this was the right thing to do as the family has chosen to research the breed, select a reputable breeder that they feel comfortable with, and for the most part, paid significantly more for the puppy. None of us can guarantee the absolute health of each and every puppy but as reputable breeders we can stand behind our babies and assist the puppy owner both in knowledge and financial if required. I believe we have refunded 5-6 times in the last 20 years, a small price to pay for us to know that we have done the right thing, maintained our reputation, and assisted the owner financially on un-asked for vet bills.

My experience has been that "yes" it does seem to be reproduced, I'd encourage them to not do surgery and refund their purchase price. Some States have strict "lemon laws" so you might wanna check that out. I agree with Gregg, being "nice" is always the best option.

OCD is an inheritable disease/condtion. If a young pup or young adult dog is " Wired " to have ocd, I believe that it will happen with or without an injury to express the OCD.

Because of my very generous written warrantee over the years, I had to pay out cash ( price of 3 puppies )to 3 different families in 2009/2010. One was OCD of the hocks. This pup was around 5 months old when he injured himself in their wet, soapy driveway. They never took their boy into see a specialist until 3 months later. The owner contacted me in November to tell me the bad news. I asked her to send their dog's digital radiographs to a well known radiologist in our area for a 2nd opinion. They did and it came back conclusive for OCD in both hocks. I then asked the family if their young dog was over weight. They said no. They ended up doing the one hock which was a success but they still haven't done the 2nd hock but have put him on a really good joint medicine. Now here is my dilema with orthopedic issues and written warrantees.. I would say at least half of my families let their dogs get obese..10 to 30 pounds over weight.
Back to the young pup with hock ocd that I sold this family in 2009. I was on Facebook months after this dog had his hock surgery. The daughter had posted on her facebook that her mom and dad's dog weighs 115 pounds. Apparhently her dad is retired and can't reist giving Hoss human food while the wife is at work.
I did end up sending this couple the price of a puppy to help pay for their boy's surgery but it just grates on my nerves when people let their dogs get obese. I talk and talk till I'm blue in the face about how important it is to not let dogs get over weight and I explain to them how they can tell if their dog is putting on too much weight.
Another couple let their girl I sold them get up to 130 pounds. She should have weighed 90 pounds at the very most. She sustained a torn cruciate that eventually healed. The funny thing is, the husband is an orthopedic dr and his wife is a nurse. There is just no excuse to let a Labrador get that fat.
Up until last year, I hadn't had to pay out anything but all it took was an unfortunate meeting of genetics and reality hit on just how lucky we have been the past 12 years.
I decided to revise my contract so that it allows me to evaluate each situation, esp the cases where people have allowed their dog to get obese.
I to have seen and been told about how my families have allowed their young puppy to jump up and down from their big suv..we are talking 5 to 6 months old. It's like all the information I give them goes in one ear and out the other. So frunstrating at times.

I had a call when a puppy was about a year old that he had OCD in the hock. Owner told me the trainer noticed the limp and had suggested they have him x-rayed. Well, they went right to the orthopedic surgeon they have used for a previous injury on an older dog. One hock completely normal, other appeared to be OCD. The surgeon then went on to x-ray every joint on this puppy's body. I don't disagree with this approach - his reasoning was why do surgery on one joint if others were bad. He told the owners this was one of the soundest dogs he had ever seen other then the one hock in question. He still held to OCD but did not tell them it was genetic. When he actually did the surgery he found a joint chip that was significantly larger than a typical OCD joint mouse. He told them when the dog went home this was, in his judgement, most certainly the result of an injury and not genetic OCD. Until he did the surgery he was unable to determine that on x-ray. With absolute dedication these owners did hydrotherapy and their puppy made a 100% full recovery. I wouldn't send money until the surgery is done and you receive a copy of the written report.

I think we owe to the breed to bend over backwards to cater to the public, because, as with anything in our current culture, the customer is always right, and with internet, etc, has a very loud voice.

This info is straight from a Board Certified Ortho Vet: When OCD occurs in one hock, there is a chance, albeit not all that common, that the lesion was caused by an injury. However, when the lesions occur in both hocks it is much more likely to be genetic in origin. In addition, there is great variability to the extend of symptoms: some lesions can be crippling, others barely limiting.

that is what I thought-this is only one hock affected and they did the hips which were perfect.

"he dropped his puppy (already paid for) on mye tile floor while I was doing paperwork w/ his mom"

Please don't ever allow children to hold a pup (paid for or not). They must be sitting on the floor, (not in a chair, the couch or standing).

I instill this in all my puppy buyers verbally and in my puppy instructions - if the pup is dropped on its head it could be fatal.

No pups are around when doing the paperwork. I want my buyers focusing on the paperwork not pups running around. I need to be focused as well, not keeping an eye on kids around my pups.

Thank god your pup was not injured or worse.

Yes-- agree 200% and my Puppy Prep document has already been rewritten for future litters! Very very unnerving... I've also addressed visits now too, so that everyone is on the same page. As for the issue of "picks" mentioned in the other topic, I have had that outlined on my website for quite some time and I've found it really helps. Anne