I have been breeding and showing for about 5 years now so I’m fairly new. I was wondering if anyone could give me a great breeder outside of the USA that breeds chocolate. I am looking to import the best show quality chocolate boy that I can find. Could anyone that has had any contacts with chocolate breeders outside the US or just know of some great chocolate breeders give me some ideas where to start. Any info would be appreciated greatly and Thank you in advance.

You may have had more success with this question on a different day. I seem to have gotten everyone up in arms about ethical breeding practices, so they may not be in a mood to offer friendly advice about breeding for color. Sorry.

Seriously????

You honestly have NO idea of chocolate breeders outside of the US? 5 years + the research you did before getting into labradors? I am very sure you know the answer to your own question.

Thanks for all the help. How hard is it just to answer what someone is asking or don't answer at all.

Now thats funny. The overseas breeders all want our dogs. Hello!!!

I can't believe the replies to someone only breeding 5 years.

You 2 posers need to learn to live with a little humility.

I didn't know what I do today about chocolate breeders overseas. I do now and will attempt to compile a list for you tomorrow OP.

There are nicer dogs here in the states. Dont waste your time and money going overseas.

BUY AMERICAN!!!!!! Keep the money here.

I know there are nicer lines here and they are coming here for our lines. I want something different no one else has. If you haven't noticed several boys are being imported like Gandi,spencer,cabot and several others. People want something new that no one else has. I know of several breeders outside the US but I was hoping to find a couple more.

Not really.

Let's see April Fools day has come and gone! Are you kidding? If you are not wake up and smell the roses! YOUR BEST CHOCOLATES ARE RIGHT THERE IN THE USA!!!!!
MOST GOOD ONES IN THIS SIDE OF THE POND ARE IMPORTS FROM THERE or BRED TO DOGS THERE!!!

Yes, they are right. I have looked like you but always come back to the US. Our chocolate Labs look the best they have EVER, looked. You had better be careful. I have seen alot of people spend big money to be unhappy. If you buy a pup here you can trace parents and pictures, all clearances are in print. Think you are just wishing we had a larger gene pool. We don't, so go to Bc boys or heck Bb and have a nice next generation. Think that is why we are looking so good now. Our blacks are outstanding. So keep the good chocolates coming. Buy USA

I can't believe that even in just 5 years of the breed, you haven't been able to go back a few generations and track down some overseas kennel names that are outstanding in their chocolate lines.

There are some nice US chocolates, folks have been making strides, but if we breed to the same 5 nice chocolate boys we are going to run out of options. I love Dauber but I don't feel like breeding to him or one of his many offspring. And there are a handful of boys out there just like that

If we want other options, it's fair to want to go elsewhere. Do some googling in Sweden and Finland.

Hey, we bred to Arnold, and Arnold kids to Arnold kids and still are. I think we are all trying to add some new pedigrees, but I still see some bad stuff coming from outside the country alot. They had better know what they are doing and 5 years of breeding chocolate is a very new person. Be safe not sorry. And look at Bc or Byc. don't just bred chocolates. There again you had better know what you are using. Don't pass nice dogs that are EIC or PRA carriers or Fair. You could miss the cream of the crop. Test your girls and go from there ! Good luck.

I totally agree w/ "me". The diversity in chocolate pedigrees is nil. The chocolates in the country may be getting better when looking at the whole dog but I think heads have gone to crap. Houndy ears, long noses and light eyes. Or the opposite, snipey noses, short ears with light eyes.
Arnold was an exceptional stud dog. Hard to believe you are putting the chocolates of today in the same category.

I agree, how can we compare the use of Arnold to any of the chocolates of today. The black lines (whether Arnold or not) have had so many more years of work. You can't compare any of the chocolate boys out there to Arnold. He was a culmination of superb lines and was an amazing dog. I think many hope their chocolate stud of the month will be another Arnold, but unfortunately the chocolate lines don't have the years of quality behind them. In my mind, that's why we go back to BC or BYC, hoping to pull in some of that improvment.

Many of the nice chocolate boys that folks love to breed to still have too light of eyes for my taste. Heck, they are better than some of the headlights I have seen on some in the ring, but maybe we need to be a little more picky about what we are keeping and breeding to.

You find the right European breeder and you are certainly no worse off then some of the options we have in the states. I am not sure why some of you are so Pro-USA unless you are just kennel blind.

Ask almost any breeder overseas and they will tell you the same thing. Their chocolates are suffering with lack of type. They want ours. We have the best of what there is out there plain and simple. Sacrifice quality, type and size just for a different line? Backpeddal if you must.

Then you and I must be thinking of different breeders. The two breeders I know certainly do not have dogs that lacking anything, least of all substance or type...nor do they feel their dogs lack. I wish OUR dogs in the USA looked more like them. More of the moderate dog with the true lab head instead of the massive dogs we often discuss as being just "overdone". I realize that is what many prefer (and often what is rewarded in the ring), but it's not what I prefer.

Please send me an Email of the two breeders you are talking about.

No pet person, she may not, your a puppy mill, and she is a "hobby, and shows her dogs. There is a big differance.

Boy, you sure took the Arnold thing and blew it out of the water. I did not really mean Arnold. Just that you can use the same dog and not hurt pedigrees if the dogs are nice. I have been in this for 32 years and know their is not a dog out there today like Arnold. BUT I do not like the tone that chocolates are not up to par. Some of us are doing our best. I bet your black were not just produced by you. Of course, blacks are ahead of yellows and chocolates. If you look at all the health issues it is hard to find nice studs of any color. Its work. Thank goodness we love it and spend the time to do the best we can.

There are some FANTASTIC Chocolate breeders in Canada too.

They are International if you are in the US.

I agree with those saying that there are plenty of lovely chocolates in North America. I think people are breeding regardless of color these days and bringing in more of the mainstream lines that now carry chocolate.

There are more and more lines that carry chocolate today than ever before. It's not just chocolate that they are bring to the genepool, but some of the best tried and true lines like Arnold Grandsons, Pipe Major Grandsons, Gordy Grandsons. I love what these lines produce in black and yellows and I'm even more thrilled to be able to bring chocolate out through these lines.

The American chocolate Labrador is, IMO, the best in the world. We are seeing lovely heads, dark eyes, good bone, good coat and my favorite, good angles. For so long most chocolates had very straight rears. That was my bugaboo. Two dogs changed that, Epochs Edward of Bonaventure and his son Bonaventure Lubberline Viscount. Not only did you see a more correctly angulated rear, but also the stunning brown eyes. When these lines are combined with today's top producing lines, the chocolates are superb.

Of course this is just my opinion

Agree with what you are saying adding in the nice stud dogs no matter what color. But if you are naming names Eddie and Vinny were wonderful, but Beau Webster was Eddie's sire and then some of those Banner females and Beachcroft females have added alot to that side of that pedigree. Not just the stud dogs, remember ? I also got nice rears from using a nice Byc stud. This one an import. You really have to look back at the sire's anad dam's on both sides.

Which BYC boy are you referring to? Is he still alive and breedable? You can list it here or send him to my Email.
Thanks

You need to breed to the whole dog. Think about temperament, orthopaedic history, study the get and their health issues. Breeding to any dog over one persons experience isn't wise. Do your homework. Temperament is paramount. We have plenty of great prospects in the good old USA. Go to Potomac and fiest your eyes on our quality. It is unsurpassed.

I just asked who the boy was so I can do my homework. I never said I was going to breed to him. I like to get opinions from others and then talk to someone totally different and see if they are the same. Look up offspring, check health clearances...... Just because I asked who he was doesn't mean I was going to jump on him.

The diversity in some of the B/Y lines is also nil - due to some very heavily used stud dogs in the past few years, trying to find a pedigree without them in it is not easy. Some lines are now doubled and tripled on these dogs. While they have very nice type, they also bring health issues which I don't need to double up on let alone triple.

Yes but there's the rub, you *know* the issues in American dogs. The issues in European dogs is often unknown to many Americans, so they are seen as clean and new territory. The European dogs are not a panacea of disease free pedigrees, nor are they a shortcut to the next best thing. I think it is common for the new breeder to want to import as a way to shortcut an often challenging process. It can be difficult to get a great prospect here in the USA and one has to work hard to prove they are serious and in Labradors for the long haul. Sometimes it looks easier to buy a puppy from somewhere else. Yes, Hyspire brought in some outside dogs but they have a name and a track record to help them make connections. Importing is not a shortcut, nor is it any less risky and often has less protection for the importer.

I may *know* about the issues, but because many people will not disclose or talk about them, a lot of people may have no idea - the fact that some of these dogs are being heavily bred and mixed with other lines with the same issues indicates that a lot of people may not know. I am sure there are a lot of things I do not know about U.S. dogs, and if someone is not going to be honest with me then the fact that they are in this country is not going to make a difference.

I have considered a few European dogs as a mate for my bitch, primarily because I prefer the look of some of them - shorter, tighter coats, more neck, decent bone but not overdone. The breeders/owners of these dogs are not novices and have been in dogs for a long time - they know what they have and I don't find it much different than dealing with U.S. stud dog owners.

As with anything, one has to do their homework; otherwise, it does not matter what issues are lurking and where the dog is located.