I've sifted through the responses to my original post, and I really have learned something. I honestly had a pretty hard time accepting it, I brushed it off and tried to ignore it, but it just kept tickling the back of my mind. The truth has a way of doing that. :/

Purposeful, thoughtful breeding- whether for conformation, performance, or both- really is less selfish than breeding solely for personal profit because it isn't just the breeder who benefits- it's everyone else down the line. The breed really does need dedicated, ethical people who strive to preserve it as what it was intended to be. If all breeding was done with no regard for the standard, the breed would disintegrate, which would be a shame for breed enthusiasts and pet owners both.

Even though all forms of breeding serve human interests (rather than canine) hobby breeding serves the interests of a large group- not just an individual.

I've always felt that my breeding practices have benefited others than just myself- namely, the families that have purchased my puppies. But I've learned recently that there are hobby breeders who are having a hard time selling their puppies. I've been justifying my practices with the assumption that there aren't enough hobby breeders to meet the demands of the pet market. Instead, I'm learning on here that there are puppies who may be considered higher quality than mine that aren't finding new pet homes. I don't really know why. Is the asking price too high, or the marketing just not good enough? Perhaps I could trade some marketing expertise in exchange for breed mentoring, lol.

I guess the right path for me from here is to get involved in some venue with my dogs. My girls are all ch sired, with the exception of one who is out of two ch sired parents. I know they weren't first pick/show prospects, but I really do think they have a decent shot at an IABCA title. Not to insult those who have IABCA titles on their dogs :) I have read enough threads on this forum and others to know that a lot of the judges at IABCA shows are AKC judges, and they give you a written critique of your dog. That seems like a good place to start learning. And if they get negative critiques from the judges and can't earn their Intl Ch title, I'll retire them and start over. I can afford to do so, and I really don't think I'll have a hard time getting new breeding stock. As vocal as the posters on here have been, I know from experience that there are breeders with nice dogs who will offer them to newbies on full reg.

Thanks to the poster on here who took the time to read and try to understand my point, and then replied with honest, thoughtful information to support their point. And to those of you who think I'm on food stamps and my daughter is a prostitute... :P

What a way to waste bandwidth. Talk about attention-seeking; maybe you need to get a job dealing with the public so you can get some social interaction in an appropriate way.

I felt it was nice and well thought out. People can change you know. This could have been a good learning experience for "Pet Person".

*And to those of you who think I'm on food stamps and my daughter is a prostitute..*

Stop playing the victim, it was a rhetorical question.

Very articulate response, Pet Person. I think you have set the stage for a debate about IABCA. It will be interesting to see if you can maintain your equanimity as well in the next debate. Good luck. And may the best debater win.

People wonder why others back away from the "community", well here you have it. I think some people really enjoy keeping others down and it is a shame. A little encouragement usually goes a long way.

I see no reason to doubt that Pet person means what she says. I've seen this before - people do become educated and change their practices. I encourage Pet person to become involved with some organization devoted to dogs. Possibly there is a local obedience or agility club you could join if the closest Labrador club is too far away or unaccepting (and I have been privy, as a member, to some really disheartening discussions and votes over prospective members, so some clubs are NOT very accepting.) If you do join, then become an active member. You will learn something, and establish credentials as a contributor, not a "parasite". And maybe you can get your kids involved, too, if you have any that are especially interested in the dogs. It can be a great family activity.

I think it is just someone pulling our leg. Who has that kind of time. Go play or work with the dogs. You might see how wonderful and intelligent they are and breed them for other reasons.

IABCA shows are a great way to start yourself showing dogs. enlist on some handling classes. Usually the all breed clubs offer these classes together with obedience, rally and agility.

To the community: If you believed all she said when she was exposing and talking bad about herself, then shut the F**K up and believe what she is saying now and that she wants to get better.

If you WANT to do something with your dogs....FORGET IABCA. It's a joke. Regardless if the one USA representing judge is an AKC judge, typically they are not the "best" judges from the pool. Basically since you are only critiqued vs. compared to other dogs, in a weekend's show judges, will pass out certificates saying your dog looks like a lab (what kind of lab is not important) which you collect and cash in with your check for a title.

If you don't think you have AKC material, consider UKC. I know some think it's a joke too, but you do at least need competition to win and in certain parts of the country the events are VERY well attended by folks with AKC winning dogs, so the title is worth a bit more than just IABCA. PLUS it's a nice, friendly way to get ring experience.

Why does a professional handler do better than a novice? No different than playing any other sport. I can play tennis. I can hold my own. Am I good enough to compete? No way. I can show a dog, I know how to do it. I show 15-25 times a year. A Professional Handler shows 15-25 a month. Who do you think does a better job? The person who does it ALL THE TIME, or the person that does it PART TIME? It's not to difficult to figure out. Not all dogs are STARS (nothing to do with quality of the dog, but personality of the dog...I have a handsome male with reserves but he doesn't like to show), and require an expert to bring out the best in a dog.

I learned long ago that the very people who think other people are lying are least to be trusted.

The same applies to this list. Posters who are convinced that others are lying, manipulative, have ulterior motives, are stupid or whatever, probably feel that way because that is how they behave.

I agree with forgetting IABCA, it's certainly not going to get you any respect in the show community and it'll just be seen as trying to fool your puppy buyers into thinking you have quality dogs. Join your local club and get involved!!

I applaud your wanting to learn and having an open mind. I cannot speak to the IABCC or UKC shows as I have never been. I have friends who really like UKC for their young dogs and just to go and have fun with their dogs. You might consider joining your local kennel club and taking advantage of any handling classes they offer. I have found this is a great way for new people to learn and get the confidence they need to take the next step into the show ring. Also, volutneering to help out at club events will provide you with alot of networking opportunities. Good luck and have fun on your new adventure!!

While I no longer show at IABCA shows because I am looking to improve the quality of my dogs and want to know how they compare in competition, I did start out at IABCA shows. They were helpful in learning about ring procedure and you do get written critiques of your dog, so you know what they are evaluating. Some of the judges are the same judges you would see at AKC and CKC All-Breed shows. Some of them know Labradors and some do not, but that is no different than a lot of shows. It is a smaller venue, which can be a good way to start out and start learning. I personally do not consider the titles to mean anything more than a conformation certificate would (which is still a good start), but it is a more relaxed atmosphere.

Other fun ways to get involved with your dogs is in field work (which my dogs love and that makes it fun) and obedience, which is how I started - a good way to bond with the dogs and assess work ethic.

Good luck!

You know what I have found out about this place. I come here to learn and ask questions I may have from people that have way more experience. Every time I make a post on here I have to worry " I hope I spell everything correct so those spelling fairy want jump all over me for one mis-spelled word. Or is my grammar is correct, will someone make a comment about that. There are very few on here that are willing to share their knowledge to us newbie without criticism. If you can understand what I am asking, mis-spelled or not just answer my question with helpful comment of don’t post at all. There are about 50 of you on here just waiting on someone to flog over something or another. That is exactly why some of us never learn you don’t allow us to learn. When I first started breeding I was a back yard breeder, no clearances, no test nothing just breeding to dogs together. Well I didn’t know there was anything wrong with that until one day I lost my two dogs in a thunderstorm. Lightning struck their dog house and killed them. After some time to get over that I found myself looking for another lab. I looked for weeks called 50 or so breeders asking question. I found a dog I like and he was champion sired and came from clear parents that had all their clearances done. I couldn’t believe someone would want $1500 for a dog WHAT!!!! Are you kidding me? That breeder explained to me the difference of why theirs were more, OFA parents, EIC clear,PRA/optigen clear. Since then I have been lucky to find a few breeders willing to in-trust in me with their lines. I do all of my clearances and I show them at our local shows when I can make it there around our three kids. People can change and it can happen quicker when people are more like Peggy that can explain stuff to newbie without biting their heads off. I bet if you had to sign you name to every post you wouldn’t act the way you do here every day. I had a breeder tell me that 80% of all breeders are either crazy or drunks and he said he was a drunk. Sometimes I wonder if he wasn’t speaking the truth. This isn’t to everyone on this board this is to the one’s that can’t help jumping on someone that they don’t agree with. You should know if I’m talking about you are not. Stop all the hatred toward people and just share your experience and knowledge you would be surprised how much of a difference that will make. THANK YOU to the breeders that don’t mind sharing your knowledge and wisdom with us. Pet person I believe you were being sincere

Amen!

She goes down fighting to the end...persistant and so full of her own ways for 2 days, and just suddenly she's become open minded?

I am the first person to give the benefit of the doubt in most situations, but in this case, following up until yesterday afternoon, this woman has done nothing but try to cast doubt in our minds, set in her own ways, thinking her pet families were somehow more pleased than our pet families etc etc.

I understand people can change, but people don't just change over night!

Her subsequent posts now are full of new questions egging us on to open up new debates : IABCA showing questions, and then why professional handlers over amateur etc... I wouldn't bite !

BUT... I do hope she starts naming off judges of her future show entries, maybe we'll meet up with her at a show more easily to see just how much better her well loved dogs are!

She spent so much time stewing over how she wanted to start this debate, prompted by getting declined by another breeder. She sat on it, stewed and conjured up this discussion but yet only took moments to reply to our posts. Then takes the afternoon off yesterday only to come back to us today with this new outlook on life and of course, back to spewing off replies.

PUHLEEZE people!

She didn't change over night. Maybe she wont change at all. It is easier to stay home and do nothing for the breed. What happened is that, with the few useful replays in the entire long thread, she realized what she was doing wrong; not giving back anything for the perpetuation of the breed. She realized that she wouldn't have any Labs if all the breeders from the past would have been like her.
If she put doubts in your mind is because in her original post she stated that we all use our dogs for our own benefit, call it money or the glory to have the new AKC Ch, BISS, MH or TID and sad or not she is right about that.
Hatred posts help no one but the one that writes them. They finally found the opportunity to let out the frustrations of their every day life.