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Gawky stages

OK maybe I have been really lucky. My keepers have not gone through the really gawky, leggy, ugly stages. There were times of course they looked better than others as they were maturing, but I always saw the potential... I now have a 12 month old boy.
He was pick and had really nice bone and substance as an 8 week old. He was really blocky and had a fabulous head. I called him my little Mack truck. At about 5 months he got really lean, leggy, narrow, and the head, well pinhead is definitely how I describe him. ( He is fed 4 cups per day, Pro Plan Performance) His lines are slower to mature overall, but his maternal grandfather, and uncle matured rather quickly and had nice substance throughout each stage. Is this a time when the boys can look really 'off' ? He is still very balanced, decent angles,, but not what I am accustomed to at this age. My boys always have their man cheeks by 8 months or so... And they are not narrow when you look at them from the rear. He did just start lifting his leg which is also a little later than I am used to.. Maybe the testosterone will start to come in and the substance will reappear?

Re: Gawky stages

"Is this a time when the boys can look really 'off' "

YES!!!!

My guy is slow to mature, too. Be patient with him. And good luck.

Re: Gawky stages

Umm, 4 cups a day of PPP is not enough for a boy! He could eat upwards of 6 if he were at my house and I don't "do" fat! Mine get lots of exercise and when they are adolescents, they get fed way more than you are feeding your boy. Unfortunately he may never regain the bone he had - you know - "feed for bone"!

Re: Gawky stages

Is that true that you have to "feed for bone"? Will that mean if you have a lean line but you feed well you could cause the pup to "grow" more bone? And, if you have a one year old is that too late to add bone-at what age is bone done coming in do you think?
Thanks-very interesting reply!

Re: Gawky stages

I've heard about feeding for bone, then I've heard that limiting food intake decreases the risk of hip/elbow issues. How do you balance the two?

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I balance the two by tweaking the food intake amounts everytime I see the dog look differently. When he looks lanky I boost it. If he looks good I hold true. If he looks a little chubby I cut back a tiny bit. It's a distribution game for sure, but you can't get the bone if you feed by a label or always feed 4 cups of food. I have a 2yr old that has changed tremendously in the last 6mo. I'm amazed at the amount of change, but I also played with the amount of food I was feeding during this time to support his growth and development.

Re: Gawky stages

I have plenty of bone on my 6 month old keeper and he's not gawky and only gets 4 cups of PPP. Granted he gets cookies, and a little canned, and a handlful or so of kibbles during training, so it's not like he's LIMITED to ONLY 4 cups, but that's his meal ration.

Re: Gawky stages

I recently changed from Purina One Large Breed to Kirkland Chicken Rice and Veggies. I was amazed at the transformation in my dogs within the 1st couple of weeks. I had a bitch come back from her co-owner who feeds PPP and she had a dull coat and wasn't looking hot :( After about 3 weeks her coat came back and looks the best I have ever seen it! My 8 month old keeper pups look awesome as well and I am saving soooo much with this food as well as getting 40# instead of 34#. Not saying you need to change your food but sometimes what works in the past can change when manufacturers change their formulas or sometimes the dogs just don't do the best on what everyone else eats. Just some food for thought

Re: Gawky stages

To Me (not really "me" but "you"). *S*

Six month olds can often still get away with the 4 cups, but a year old, I have to agree with the other poster, it's not enough and you will lose bone if they get too thin. I don't believe in "feeding for bone" per se, because a dog that isn't predisposed to having bone is just going to get fat if you feed too much. However, if you let a dog get thin, some of bone will not come along. So I feed to prevent bone loss, rather than feed "for" bone.

I feed Kirkland here too, have for years, works well with my guys.

Re: Gawky stages

I find this 'feed for bone' theory interesting.
I have never fed any of my Labs more than 4 cups per day. And right now I have a couple of fat Labs on only 2 cups per day.
I have tried to feed this boy more food and he just is not interested. He does get treats, and additional kibble during the day as a snack. But I never bothered to add up how much more than the 4 cups he is actually getting..
He is a very healthy boy with a gorgeous coat and great movement, and tons of energy. I don't think he is lacking in proper nutrition at all. While I can see inadequate nutrition leading to a pup not developing to his full potential, I guess I don't see a healthy pup with proper nutrition not doing so due to amount only if he is a bit thin. Bone is genetic and either he has it or not, no?

Re: Gawky stages

Yes, you can't ADD bone by feeding more, but you can sure not allow him to develop his genetic potential-bonewise! Look at the pet puppies that are placed - they looked great at 8 weeks, but pet people tend to keep them thin because their vets tell them to then they never look the same.

As far as keeping them thin for joint issues - people, we are raising BREEDING prospects. I don't believe you can cause HD from overfeeding - you might be able to prevent it from showing up in a genetically-vulnerable dog by underfeeding, but as a breeder, I don't want to cover up any underlying joint issues by deliberately underfeeding.

It's a fine line, but if HD is there, I'd rather see it in that dog than breed it and have it show up in its properly-fed puppies.

Re: Gawky stages

I did miss that they said the boy was a year, but even my last round of keepers, they never got more than 4 cups, even as adults...they are 3 now. I guess it really does depend on lines.

Re: Gawky stages

It all depends on genetics.
The answer to the "Gawky Stage" is patience. We once had a boy at around 15 months of age that was so ugly that we could not even give him away, believe me we tried! Our mentor was visiting looking at a litter of puppies and she reminded us of the importance of patience. Over the next year and a half I tried not to look at him until one day the "black Greyhound" turned into a Labrador prince. Our boy 3 1/2 year old boy ended up finishing quickly, owner handled. I can also think of a famous import who shared our boys issue, ugly as sin until he was a little over 3. Again, then he finished quickly and is in many blood lines of our Labradors.
If you liked him as a baby, give him time as some do not mature until they are three +.

Re: Gawky stages

Gregg:
Thank-you for your encouraging reply. YES I loved him as a pup, and so did the many breeders who evaluated him for me.
I am thinking I may change his food to Wellness Core if he tolerates it... One of my boys did so well on that formula when others didn't work well for him. I truthfully do not like PP at all, but in the past my lines as young pups and adults have done well on it. Perhaps this boy is going to change that... I have my Adult Labs on a higher quality food, so I think I will change the young ones over as well at this point.
Thanks!

Re: Gawky stages

I have had boys at that age that looked kind of weedy and I increased their food (pro plan performance) to up to 6 cups a day depending on the dog and it really helped to fill them out. I didn't let them get fat, but they obviously needed more calories. Our boys typically don't finish maturing until they are about 3 or 4 years old. If it looks good from the side by two years old I am happy and know they will fill out the rest of the way in a year or two. People tend to show (boys especially) way too young before they are done growing. I will show them in the puppy or Jr class to train them and then do other stuff with them until they are ready to bring out.