I've found a lot of older breeders that have completely retire form the shows and still breed lots of litters every year.
They display pictures from their days of glory 20 years ago! and then they advertise and sell show puppies.
It bothers me that they don't even do clearances, maybe hips and CERF and that's about it.
Shouldn't breeders retire before from breeding, and then retire from the shows?
I just call them a BYB.
Just venting, sorry.

Hmmmm..... Everyone is a judge and a critic. Especially on this one breeders website that I was reading. The breeder criticizes everyone from newbies to longtime breeders in an attempt to exault themself. It is pretty sad especially when the breeders dogs are not all that much.

Just venting too.

While I prefer breeders that do something with their dogs, I would certainly not fault a "legend" in the lab world for not showing anymore. But if they aren't doing clearances either...crap...they deserve a slap in the face.

ALL clearances, first and foremost. No matter who you are.

Then work your dogs. If you can.

Life has high roads and low roads, maybe in the "hay day" they had lots of extra money to show and the shows didnt cost an arm and a leg. Maybe they didn't have kids yet or had a great paying job that allowed them this luxury.

So with today's tight times, budgets had to be made and belts had to be tighten so the kids can get through college. The "plan" may be that once the kids are out of the house the dog shows can be top of the fun list again.

In the mean time what should they do?? get rid of all their lines that may have been decades of planned breeding?? what would they start with your newbie lines??

Personally it is none of your business why they no longer show....but I am sure if you asked them they would be happy to tell you....or not.

Very good answer. We all have had times or sickness where we slow down on showing. But all of a sudden BYB I don't think so. You are just looking for something to nag about.

@Op and others venting. What business is it of yours what people do or don't do? So they choose not to go to a show. Big deal?

Does that mean only show dogs should be bred? Or does that mean only winning show dogs should be bred?

Venting is one thing - do it alone in your own home. To do it here smacks of you trying to hurt someone's reputation. I trust others will read your post and see through your holier than thou rants.

Actually HERE is the perfect place to bitch as it's the only anonymous forum. It's not like the OP stated who this person was. The whole topic is a tad nit-picky but ACTUALLY hurt someone's rep? Hardly. I have no idea who they were talking about. Are YOU a mindreader?

Newbie,

On a kinder note, is an old semi retired breeder really the same as a BYB? Their lines may be clear of many things so they don't test, or they've never had issues so see no need to over test.

The semi-retired breeder has learned so much through showing and experience. They know temperament,conformation, trainability, lines, etc. They know common issues/diseases/sicknesses and how to treat them. They know how to properly socialize a puppy and how to train dogs. Let's just let them semi retire and enjoy their dogs :) Even though they don't currently show, I'm sure we both could learn a lot from them over a cup of tea

The only problem I see if it's true is *if* clearances aren't being done by any breeder. I can't imagine a breeder around that long skipping clearances.

With how much we are educating pup buyers, I sure hope they know better than to buy a pup from anyone without clearances on the parents. The trend has been changing to knowlegable pup buyers. Let's hope it continues.

I guess I qualify to respond as I have been active in dogs for well over 40 years.

There is never a good excuse not to test and do clearances on any "at public" stud dog - and that also means if his pups are going to another home. If you have first generation clear by parentage bitches that you are breeding yourself, then you know what you have and what you are dealing with. Subsequent offspring should have their own clearances.
They may have had clear lines for some things, but every breeding shuffles the deck in regard to many issues. Then there is always the chance for a genetic mutation to throw in a monkey wrench. Once that happens, that particular dog is then contributing the "new" genetic element.

This is true! Some of the long time breeders aren't doing all the clearances. I know a breeder/judge that doesn't send x-rays to OFA and I hear this is commonplace with seasoned breeders. I guess if your in the breed long enough you get an honorary degree in radiology.

I'm sorry I've never heard not sending X-rays in was commonplace, maybe pre-lims or X-rays that obviously are not that great but final ones that will give the Lab a number...........never heard of it.

I think some of the oldtime breeders might just be plain tired of going to the dog shows. I mean afterall it is a ton of work carrying crates in and out, walking dogs, loading and unloading. Man after awhile even us younger folks would rather stay home. Then of course, they still want to breed their wonderful dogs and enjoy the pups. It is not easy to breed and go to shows at the same time unless you have a kennel crew. Then you have to worry about the dogs going out to shows coming home sick after being at the shows and infecting the entire kennel. Newbie, get out there and do it yourself for awhile, you have a lot to learn.

Just to clarify,
Older breeders that retire completely and for good from the shows, but still breed 6-7 litters a year and almost no clearances.
I have profound respect for senior breeders that accomplished their goals in the breed and retire from the shows and mostly breeding except for one litter every here and then. I see nothing wrong with that as soon as all the clearances are done.
I want to see this clearances in ANY litter from ANY breeder: Hips, elbows, AVCO exam, Heart (even if from a practitioner), and DNA for PRA. I do EIC, but I know lots of breeders are not comfortable with it yet.
I've seen so many of these retired show/BYB in my area that I had to say something.
I don't even know if they come to this forum, but I hope they do, and read, and re-consider.

I have a personal experience with one old time breeder, preliminary hips were done, not sent in and the bitch was bred. When I asked another seasoned breeder about this I was told this is not unusual for someone who's been in the breed so long and the breeder "knows what they're doing". It happens whether you've heard about it or not.

Yes, we do believe this practice is wrong. Yes, we do think they should know better. OK, so they chose to cut corners. Don't buy a pup from them, don't use their stud, don't talk to them at dog shows, don't refer puppy buyers to them. But other than that, it's really NONE of our business, right?

As someone whose knees are talking to her these days, I don't show as much as I used to. I don't have the income to hire a handler, nor do I want to. So I don't judge others who used to show, but don't so much anymore. There can be many reasons why they don't.

Clearances should be done whether or not someone is actively participating in dog events.

You know I can't imagine how much time it took for you to visit web sites of breeders in your area and check all their dog's clearances, then double check them on OFA. Who takes care of your dogs while you are on the computer all day?

And yet another NEWBIE who thinks they have the right to police the rest of the Labrador world. Go train your dogs, and when you breed something even half as nice and or influential as those retired breeders, then perhpas the rest of us will have something to say to you.

While we are at it, let's get off the backs of those people who aren't into the show or performance scene who do all their homework, all the clearances, socialize and love their puppies to pieces.

We should have room for them too, in addition to tolerance and even respect.

Yes, I consider myself a newbie. I've been in the breed for only 15 years. I've bred only a few Champions and I've bred only a few performance title dogs.
The little experience I have tells me that breeding dogs without proper clearances and just for money is not right.
It amazes me that the same people that trashed Pet person are now defending this unethical practice. There is no difference between any of them.

It is funny because I was thinking the same thing - someone who comes out and says they are a pet person yet does all of their clearances is not an example of a good breeder, but someone who once showed but no longer does is free to breed pet puppies (how could they be anything more if they are not being evaluated against the cream of the crop?) to their heart's content. Personally, I think there is no difference in practice but I would not condemn either one of them either as they both seem to be doing clearances.

Funny you should say people do it for money. I have seen some of these people do it for the sheer love of it.

Thank you Newbie also. Some of us have spent many, many years in the showring and other aspects with our dogs. We have done clearances for years, know our lines and have loved our dogs and know our dogs and their soundness and what works with our pedigrees.
We have taken a step back for various reasons, if it maybe the economy or our health issues, or just loving our dogs. We have litters and are proud of our litters. After all, our lines go back for many generations. We are not BYB, we are just enjoying our kids and their kids and their kids. Hope the Newbie, will someday, be in our shoes and enjoy this breed as we have

So, you are saying that you do not do clearances because you know your lines?!? What I'm I missing here?
Geez, what a pot of worms have I opened! I never thought there were so many people doing this.

Maybe I missed something???
No where did "Almost Retired" say they did not do clearances.....

Well, she is explaining why she does what she does and I understood that she is doing what I have issues with. Now that I re-read it, she did say that she does clearances. My apologies.

Please understand, my issue is not with retired breeders that breed genetically sound dogs for the fun or love of breeding. My issue is with breeders that stopped doing clearances, stopped going to the shows, stopped improving their lines but still breed many litters a year protected under the shade of their glorious past.

Why are you talking down to newbie's???? Remember.... everybody was a newbie once and newbies are the future breeders of our breed!

To Newbie, no I said we do clearances, if you read my post. I don't know any older breeder that doesn't do clearances and if they aren't now, then they probably didn't do them before. Whatever the cutting corners they think they are doing, it will bite them in the butt later. No, I'm talking about us breeders that do clearances and still breed, but maybe don't show much or not show at all now. You didn't open a can of worms, because like I said, I don't know any old time breeders that don't do clearances.

Too, Older Than Dirt, You go girlfriend

I truly hope you are right.
As far as my area, there are a few.

Now how exactly do you know this? Have you visited them to conduct an interview, or are you one of the internet researchers so popular today? Have you asked these people what the tests they have or have not done are? This is really getting annoying. If you are the future of the breed we are in deep s--t.

Yes, I have visited. Yes, I've asked for clearances. Yes, I've seen their facilities. Yes, I visited their studs. Yes, I visited for a litter of puppies.
I won't keep going with this thread. You might do so as well.

Holy cow. That is amazing. I owe you an apology.

Am I the only one that thinks this sounds like pet person stirring the pot again?

You are not alone, sounds like someone was wanting a puppy with Full Registration and was turned down.

I think it is someone who is a newer breeder that thinks everything is black and white. I wonder what pretense they went to visit this kennel under, and then decided it was not up to their standards then proceeded to trash them. How many others has she done this to I wonder. Better beware of breeders wanting a kennel visit. Kind of like the ones that want to see your dogs then have the bad manners to critique them in front of you. Momma must have not taught them any better.

yup................ I'm sure this "newbie" or his twin...came on here a few yrs back and trashed me. He is the reason I became even more careful about ppl "visiting" and using my Stud dogs.

No, you're not the only one. I suspect *pet person* also. It's jmo tho.

If you were really breeding for 15 years, had *only* bred a *few Champions and *few performance title* dogs, you would *not* consider yourself a newbie.

It takes some of us more than 15 to 20 years to have a few of this [AKC CH.'s] and a few of that [AKC performance titles].

Anyone with a few CH.'s and a few performance titles dogs within AKC in 15 years would be quite proud of their accomplishments.

A 15 year breeder with those accomplishments is far from a newbie.

I think your story stinks of lots of falsehoods and I don't believe 1 word of what you've said.

shouldn't we be taking our income and putting it back into our dogs?
for most this is not a money making venture, but aren't we the stewards of this breed

Just because it takes some people 15 years to breed a few champions does not mean it takes everyone that long - it really is dependent on a lot of factors. I am not the OP but do have 3 champions out of my first litter and 4 out of this litter have two or more performance titles, and two have advanced performance titles (beyond JH or CD). One of these is a specialty winner and another has had nice placements. Why? 1. Because I started out with a great mentor who made me value a well-rounded dog and that is what I strive to breed. 2. Because she enabled me to start with a quality bitch and supported me as a friend 3. Because I continually prove my dogs as she did before me 4. Because I have an eye for what I want 5. Because I have proven dogs in my pedigrees - people who are looking for puppies they can show and work came to me for a dog and I was able to place the dogs I did not keep in active homes that did something with them. 6. I breed once in a blue moon so I have time to do all of this and keep my day job because 7. money is not a motivator for me to continue in this hobby. These titled dogs also have passed their clearances with Good or Excellent Hips, clear elbows, hearts clear, etc. I have been very fortunate thus far but have also worked at it. I attended dog shows to learn and worked my dogs for many years before I ever bred a litter.

There are others out there who through skill, luck or both have had some success. I would not be so quick to call people out as liars.

I think you have the stink on your mustache. I think the OP was either plain ironic or humble enough to say she is still a newbie, EVEN when she has been in breed that long and she has finished some dogs.