A friend of mine is looking into getting another sheperd pup but would like a pup with more german lines not so much the american stuff. He's doing his own research but i figured i'd post on here to see if any of you guys know either personally or professionally of any good breeder to suggest? I don't know anything really about the breed and when i see them in th ring i think they look like they're walking of their knees. Names with emails or links to web sites would be great. As far as location, he's from MA but he's talking with a breeder from Arizona and is willing to fly down to meet with them. I'm thinking where this isn't a labrador issue posting should be ok but emails are always good.
thank you for your help it's much appreciated.
-Drew

Have you tried googling clubs and their members to start some researching? Or maybe going to some specialities and seeing the breeders there?

Very wise to stay away from the American show GSD's. I don't think any other breed has been destroyed as bad as these poor dogs. It brings tears to my eyes when I see them at the shows. The puppies all walk on their hocks. They look like complete cripples. Such a beautiful breed, totally destroyed, so that it can look pretty in a stack.

Yes go to shows, even the specialties, there are quite a few around, but check out the obedience rings. There is where you will find the Shepherds that aren't over angulated and from working lines.

I'm sure he did use google in his search. I know he also goes to schultz (not sure if thats the right word)tests and has talked to a number of people.

thanks for any and all your help

Your friend should contact Chris Byrne in Goshen CT- www.K9one.com

As of last week he had 2 litters from impressive working lines on the ground. Chris knows his stuff and his dogs are top notch. I have one of his retired explosive detection dogs (who worked the WTC area in the days following 9/11) and have had a dog go through his in-kennel program.

Have him search Phyllis Dobbs www.dobbsdogs.com/ She has the best shepherds I have ever been around. They are sweet, intelligent and have clearances. They also work and have show points!!! Her husband Jim is a retriever trainer.

It is interesting how the GSD breeders make fun of obese Labs. Have you ever actually watched the side gait of those "crippled" GSDs? Breeder, I would suggest that you not be so theatrical about something you know nothing about.

There are many GSD show breeders in New England whose lines are mixed between American show GSD's and working German stuff. Be careful of the pure German stuff as many (certainly not all) are very hard to live with. But my point is that you can locate and contact regular show breeders through the AKC and local clubs and specifically ask for contacts for German lines. Like in labs, there are many breeders, who are well known within the network, who breed for the happy medium...who know the different types, socialize between themselves, and even mix the pedigrees. Again, just ask for breeders with German lines.

I have a 10 year old pure German Show lines, import from Germany. She is one of the most stable dogs I have ever met. I can trust her with young kids, especially my cousin with down's syndrome (supervised, of course) but I wouldn't walk into the house uninvited with bad intentions - you likely won't make it out. She also stepped into a sheep pen to herd like she's been doing it all her life at 6 years old. She has high prey drive but has always been a pleasure to live with.

I competed in Schutzhund when we were both younger with my GSDs. The majority of German lined dogs brought here are very stable and easy to live with. Of course, like with any breed, there are varying degrees of activity level and drive. I am sure your friend will be able to find one that suits his needs.

I find that most of the American GSDs lack the 'nobility' and 'confidence' called for in the GSD standard. The many American lined GSDs, despite their sloping toplines and extremely overangulated rears which breeders aim for in their interpretation of the Standard 'the gait is outreaching, elastic, seemingly without effort, smooth and rhythmic, covering the maximum amount of ground with the minimum number of steps' - with the extreme angulation, they can cover more ground - just watch them in the ring. Anyone can argue that they don't want a dog because of this look. I don't like the American look yet can still appreciate that breeders are following their interpretation of the standard. I fault the temperaments of the dogs. The majority of these dogs I have come in contact with are nervous and scared, no matter how they are raised. At one point, GSDs held the number 1 bite record in the US. From my research, a lot of it stemmed during WWII when breeders stopped importing dogs from Germany and other overseas countries. The dogs we had in the states were a limited gene pool being bred to each other which helped refine the current look. By the time things cooled off, the American GSD was so far different from the German one, that no one would mix the lines. I think that's where a lot of the temperament instability comes from. Of course now, there are definitely people mixing lines, but they get a working dog that can neither be shown successfully in AKC nor at German Shows. Police forces use German and Czech lined dogs for there temperament. A police dog needs to have good working ability as well as be able to be turned on and off. Dogs who are just mean and want to bite do not make it through the rigorous training. The ideal police dog (as well as my family pet) can be petted on one street corner and apprehend a criminal on the next.

I guess that's more information than you ever wanted to know, I just didn't want full German lines getting slammed.

If he's looking at Schutzhund clubs, that's a great place to start. DVG America has contacts. There is also a USA Seiger Show in Statesville, NC (I think every spring, but not sure).

I can't help with breeders, but if he finds a good one, I'd love to know - I'm on the lookout for a new GSD too!

I am not sure if "most" American bred GSD's have the faulty temperament that you describe, but I fully agree that many do. I did not intend to "slam" the German lines because I love them. What I do now is there is a difference between East and West German lines. I also know that I have lived and do live with German dogs who would be chronic barkers and hyper except that we work the heck out of them. This may not be what a typical pet owner wants.

Personally, I do love the dogs that are mixed American and German lines. I like toned down American movement/angulation and the toned down German attitude. I love the confidence the German dogs seems to give the American dogs.

My point to the OP is that there are many breeders who know both types, or at least know other breeders of the other type. It should be easy for them to find German bred GSD's. And yes, they need to be careful of the hardcore German bred dogs if they are a typical pet owner, as well as stay away from those American bred dogs with the skiddish temperaments.

Just wanted to say thanks for yor suggestions both openly and through private email.

http://www.bsgsdc.com/

http://www.gsdcsnh.org/

http://www.akc.org/club_search/index_master.cfm?action=refresh_index&active_tab_row_A=1&active_tab_col_A=1&fixed_tab=1&club_id=80

http://www.gsdca.org/join-the-gsdca/regional-clubs/regional-clubs-northeast/200-gsdc-northeast