On June 8, the L.A. City Council voted unanimously to ban the sale of pets bred in ‘mills.’ The legislation included the results of a 2010 survey that showed many of the retail stores in L.A. were selling mill-bred live animals.

It is now up to the L.A. Department of Animal Services, the city attorney and the LAPD to recommend new policies to regulate pets bred in puppy and kitten mills to the Board of Animal Services Commissioners and the City Council.

The policies will include banning the sale of mill-bred dogs, cats, chickens and rabbits, as well as prohibiting mill operations within Los Angeles city limits. The motion also calls for L.A. Animal Services to work with pet stores to feature shelter animals available for adoption. In addition, pet stores with high standards for the humane treatment of pets will be visibly identified.

So, I'm having mix feeling for this. The idea sounds wonderful, but who is a mill and who isn't?

Won't work. Then where would they get their puppies? No reputable breeder would sell their pups to a pet store. Unless the stores breed their own, where will the pups come from?

I think the idea is to kill the pet stores, which is awesome. I don't think they are going to do the shelter proposition.

No, the powers that be want the petstores to now feature shelter animals. This is just another way for big government to tell petstores how to run their business.

In SF, they are trying to or have already banned the sale of ALL animals in petstores, that includes hamsters, mice, rats, fish, etc. Petstores will now just be pet supply stores. Another freedom taken away.

Another major piece of legislation is making its way through our assembly now. SB 917 will make even adopting a "live" animal from in front of a store a crime. It will make displaying animals at dogshows, livestock shows in a public place a crime.

SB 917 includeds: "This bill would provide, in addition and with specified exceptions, that it shall be a crime, punishable as specified, for any person to willfully sell or give away as part of a commercial transaction, a live animal on any street, highway, public right-of-way, parking lot, carnival, or boardwalk, or to display or offer for sale, or display or offer to give away as part of a commercial transaction, a live animal if the act of selling or giving away the live animal is to occur on any street, highway, public right-of-way, parking lot, carnival, or boardwalk. The bill would provide that a notice describing the charge and the penalty for a violation of this bill may be issued by a peace officer, animal control officer, or humane officer. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program"

Again, it's the liberal politicians that have allowed the Animal Rights groups like HSUS and PETA to introduce more and more regulations on the average, responsible person. We all know what the AR groups agenda is and that is total veganism and the extinction of domestic animals.

We must defeat these kinds of bills and we MUST elect more conservative candidates that do not believe in big government.

LA and SF are the most liberal cities/counties in the state and if they can pass stuff like this here, it will just be a matter of time before the state goes down with them.

Also, we must remember to not let the AR groups get their foot in the door like this. What now constitutes a "mill"? What if someone is a byb and sells to a petstore? Will they now have to undergo inspections and scrutiny from the country? I don't necessarily agree with puppies raised commercially, but as long as they received adequate care, which I believe MOST do, then whose business is it to say they can't sell their "product" here in LA County? Petstore pet sales is a billion dollar business throughout the country. If it was really that horrible, it would not be allowed to continue, but MOST of the puppies sold through petstores are healthy and make just fine pets. We only see the worst of the worst that the AR groups use as propaganda to try to make their case. You and I may not approve of the way they raise their animals, but as long as they are cared for, it's really NOT our business! The people who come to us for a well-bred dog is in a whole different category than those who buy from a petstore anyway. I've never seen the petstores as competition for my puppies.

Ok, I've rambled enough. It's just sad to see more government regulations driven by the AR groups agenda to take away our RIGHTS to own, breed, train, show and enjoy our canine companions!

What is the purpose to prohibit live animal shows???
How is the meat industry going to improve their livestock genetics if they have no way to get them judged by experts?
What does the AKC have to say to this? THis bill is punching AKC right in its stomach?
I must say, it makes me sad to think that I'll have to give up having/showing/breeding my dogs. I love pure breed dogs and I love what I do

Here's what it means for the Rabbit breeders http://rabbitsmarties.com/2011/07/california-sb-917-passed-call-governor/: "Talking points to oppose SB 917
SB 917 is written with overbroad and deliberately vague language that will
essentially redefine almost any activity you do with your animals as “animal
cruelty”. Any act of animal cruelty, as defined by SB 917, will be a
misdemeanor replete with fines and possible jail time. The animal(s) in
question will be seized and the accused responsible for their upkeep and
care which can and will become very expensive.

Specifically, SB 917 does the following:

1.) Criminalizes selling or giving away of animals on
public property.

2.) Criminalizes the transportation of animals.

3.) Criminalizes the display of animals.

This bill is a direct assault on animal farming, raising, showing, and
ownership. If enacted, it will identify a child giving away kittens in front
of a grocery store as a criminal. She will be arrested for committing animal
cruelty. All of her kittens will be seized by police and she would be
remanded immediately to a juvenile facility to await her trial. Her crime?
Trying to place kittens in loving homes. It is important to note that only
those rescues with a 501 c3 status will be allowed to place animals under
this law. Anyone transporting an animal will also be accused. Take your dog
to the vet, transport rabbits to a show, visit friends with your pet,
transport cattle to auction- all these will become acts of animal cruelty as
defined by SB 917. Lastly, the display of an animal is also considered
animal cruelty. If you take your dog for a walk, under the strict
interpretation of this law, you have committed an act of animal cruelty
against your dog. The police or humane offices witnessing this act will be
duty bound to immediately seize your dog and arrest you for animal cruelty.

Why? Because SB 917 is so badly written and ill defined that virtually any
activity a person does with an animal can be construed as “animal cruelty”.
It may be of note that we have had this bill reviewed by an animal law
attorney who stated this interpretation of SB 917 is possible the way it has
been written and passed. It is believed that the true intent of this law is
to criminalize the selling and giving away of animals.

SB 917 proposes certain innocuous actions be added to the criminal animal
cruelty statutes. Criminal sanctions should be reserved for obvious criminal
behavior. Criminal penalties result in long-standing repercussions for
individuals in employment and credibility in general, and such penalties
should not be imposed lightly. SB 917 would criminalize law-abiding citizens
who are not guilty of anything that could be even remotely construed as
“cruelty”.

The term “cruelty” has already been defined by applicable codes. The fact
that there are exceptions noted in the bill exempting certain groups or
persons, indicates that this proposed “cruelty” law has nothing at all to do
with actual cruelty. “Cruelty” in this proposed bill is defined by location
and exemption, and in fact is only focused on display for sale or actual
sale, and not any evidence of actual cruelty.

Under this proposal, a child giving away kittens at a market would be guilty
of the crime of animal cruelty. The exemption for sales at shows or
exhibitions contains provisions that would be impossible to verify,
rendering that exemption meaningless. A hobbyist who exhibits his animals at
a show or fair could be accused of the cruel crime of “displaying for sale”.
Discussing a sale with a prospective buyer in public would become a criminal
offense. This is a blatant flaunting of first amendment rights.

There are safety concerns involved when a private party endeavors to sell
any sort of merchandise. An individual is vulnerable to theft, assault and
worse when conducting a sales transaction at their private residence.
Meeting at a halfway point to transfer an animal would also be forbidden
under this bill. In consideration of personal safety, Individuals should
have the prerogative of meeting with prospective purchasers at public venues
of their choosing.

This bill is fundamentally flawed. Animal sales are not tantamount to
cruelty, regardless of the venue. SB 917 would encroach upon the rights of
private enterprise and property owners while fundamentally altering and
expanding the role of government. As a state, we should not raise barriers
of entry into the marketplace, stifle competition or hinder the
entrepreneurial spirit.

This bill is poorly drafted and the intent is highly questionable. The
Humane Society of the US, sponsor of SB 917, wishes to limit animal
ownership by making it incrementally more expensive and inconvenient."

That's just not going to happen, but it is scary they are trying to go this far. It might be a bill for those particular cities, as not bringing in farm animals to the city.

SB 917 is a proposed STATEWIDE Law. If it goes through, and so far it has a lot of momentum, you can kiss all animal shows, including 4H and FFA shows, goodbye!

Yes, but what if Pet Stores eventually got on the responsible dog owner wagon and became the middle man between reputable breeders and good, responsible homes??

Just a thought before hell freezes over!!!

Pet stores are there to SELL for profit, not to do good for the dogs. If they can make money out of offering pets from the shelters for adoption, they might do it. Otherwise, I don't think so......

Pet stores already are doing the adoption of rescues. At least once a month. Many times animals are there full-time. Remember its good business because many have "training" and "vet services" So non-predictable dogs/cats = repetitive, long term money

And the little blue reflectors on our highways mark the route for the UN to take over our country!
I don't know why posts like this political rant aggravate me so badly!

Funny how some people blame everyone but the industry.

If the industry was squeaky clean, instead of hell for dogs hidden behind closed doors, we wouldn't be in this mess. Unfortunately, it's dragging all of us down with it.

Open your eyes and face reality. Until things in the industry change, this type of legislation will continue to come up. You need to focus on the underlying problem instead of attacking those trying to solve it.

The problem is real, the industry refuses to police itself, the USDA refuses to police it, and so the states and municipalities are trying to address the problem and we hobby breeders get painted with the same broad brush.

And, unfortunately in this PC world that we live in, those that should be helping to police (ie reputable breeders) are reluctant to do so for fear of appearing self righteous.

The key is just to continue educating the public about the differences between the BYBs/puppy mills and a good breeder. It's getting better but there's a long way to go!! And dogs suffer as we slowly make progress. Sad...

It has nothing to do with industry, but everything to do with the Animal Rights groups wanting to put to an end to ALL animal breeding. Why do you people not understand that? If we all start running off in "self righteous" directions, NONE of us will be able to continue what we love to do. Or if we will it will be so heavily regulated and restrictive we will lose our "creative control". We will be forced to breed the way our government sees fit through laws enacted by the AR nuts. There are bad breeders amongst all groups, not just the commercial dog breeders. I've seen some "show" breeders ethics that turn my stomach. Yet they make up champions and most would still consider them reputable breeders.

So if we all want to continue down the road, of being "better" than the commercial industry, we will continue to be divided and conquered. The reputable breeders are such a small number that we can't possible do what it takes to stop this asinine laws.

And to Gregg, sorry to burst your political bubble, but who is in office is extremely influential on how these laws get through. You may live in middle America, but I live in one of the most liberal states in the country and our joke of politicians, mainly democrats now, are the ones who are embracing this kind of Animal Rights agenda. Although Perry in TX,a RINO (Republican In Name Only), just signed into law a horribly restrictive anti-breeding bill. Wake up Gregg, if this continues to happen we will lose our freedoms and choices to continue the hobby we all love. It's about putting people in office that care about OUR rights. So yes, it is political.

AS for the comment about policing ourselves? It's far beyond that now. We must be aware of these proposed laws, ban together and stop them NOW. It's a war that's been declared by the AR nuts on breeders and we must now fight to retain our rights as pet owners, exhibitors, breeders, trainers and hunters

JMO

Not only are you in denial - you also have your political blinders on.

The problem is REAL. If you want the AR activists to have less influence, the REAL problem needs to be addressed. The REAL problem gives AR activists all the ammunition they need to get others to join in with their agenda.

We need to work for solutions that benefit dogs in puppy mills and give breeders a good name. The industry could co-opt a lot of the support given to AR activists if it quit denying and starting acting.

Ok let me make this clear:

IN THE EYES OF THE ANIMAL RIGHTS NUTS THERE ARE *NO* GOOD BREEDERS! Got it? It doesn't matter how much you want to clean up commercial kennels, the motto of the AR nuts is "better dead than bred". Doesn't get much clearer what their agenda is.

And as for politics, again, the Democrats are known as "bleeding heart liberals" for a reason. Give them a crying story about how bad it is to breed and sell animals and you'd better believe they will pass anti-breeding, anti-farming/agriculture legislation so fast it will make your head spin. Democrats are also known for their agenda of big government and government intrusion. I hate to make it a political issue, but it truly is. The Animal Rights groups are a very well-funded "special interest" group aimed at taking away our rights to breed.

Don't believe me, fine, sit in your own little world and keep telling yourself it won't ever happened to you.

Whenever someone's rights are abridged, your rights are abridged too. In the beginning, we simply don't believe it can happen to us. Sadly that is what the animal rights people are counting on. Their first steps seem so reasonable. But little by little, rights are being eroded.

A couple of comments - I would rather have a heart, and have it bleed appropriately, than to be a conservative Republican who has no heart and therefor it never bleeds for anything, anybody, or any decent cause. As for having an agenda of intrusion, wire taps without cause and looking up my history of checking out books in the local library are my idea of intrusion - and that sure as hell didn't come about under a Democrat. I'm a Democrat, I show and breed dogs, and I believe in capital punishment for sexual predators, and I support gay marriage because it isn't any of my business what goes on behind closed doors and I don't accept the governments right to INTRUDE. And since I also believe in total separation of church and state (along with our founding fathers)the government should be the only one involved in that issue. Now go call someone else a "bleeding heart" and leave me alone to live my life of actually giving a damn what happens to others.

You are ignoring what is happening to others. That is not caring. Their rights are being taken away. I am glad you have a heart, but you need to have a brain as well. Don't let the animal rights peoples' heart jerking pleas cloud your vision. This is not a dem vs rep issue.

As dog people, I am surprised that so many of you have such little respect for Animal Rights organizations.

Ok, maybe they go a bit overboard sometimes. But they have seen animals go through hell and they are trying to do a small something to make it better.

These are the people who are picking up the pieces from thousands of abuse and neglect cases each year. They are the people who take damaged dogs into their homes, who hold dogs damaged beyond placeability as they are put to sleep, and they are the people who deal with profoundly inhumane "humans" day after day.

Perhaps if you lived in an area of the country where the treatment of dogs is sometimes like something out of a horror film, you might not be quite so judgmental.

These compassionate souls are in the trenches every day trying to make life a little more bearable for the animals who are not as fortunate as that dog laying at your feet.

I believe that they deserve more respect from people who claim to love dogs.

Yes, I see that through the HSUS who wanted to KILL all of Michael Vick's dogs. A real caring group. Those dogs deserved a second chance and thanks to rescue groups, they fought the Animal Rights group HSUS and gave those dogs their chance.

I am all for Animal Welfare. I've done rescue. I've seen some of the abuse that goes on. Every situation is different. Helping the dogs in each situation is what is important. People can be cruel, but to take away responsible people's rights to punish the few bad apples is wrong no matter how you look at it. That is the goal of the Animal Rights group.

I am sure that none of us have a beef with the rescues, it is the H$U$ and PETA that are at the root of the problem! They do NOTHING for the animals after they bring in their "investigators", the media, local rescue workers,and their own people for the initial raid. They make sure that THEIR faces and the faces of the worst looking dogs make it on television...right next to the hotline number for donations to them!! NOT the dogs! People get duped into sending money to help these poor animals, thinking that the money is staying local and helping these specific animals. Nothing is further from the truth. H$U$ and PETA stick around for a day or two, making sure to keeping those phone lines busy, then they high tail it out on the next flight out...Yes, they fly in. They DO NOT take any of the animals with them, but they always seem to take all of those nice donations! They leave the local veterinary clinics that are helping the sick and injured, and now homeless dogs with no way to properly care for them financially. Just who are they doing a favor???

Instead of a number of breed rescues being quietly called and the dogs evaluated and placed accordingly, now we have a total cluster "chuck" of a mess, paperwork seized by the HSUS so dogs cannot be i.d'd, missing health papers if available, breeding records, all those things that could make a huge difference in how to treat some of the animals and make it easier to place them.

Cities and Counties have had to shell out thousands of dollars for the "management" of over 400 dogs and other assorted farm type animals while the missing paperwork is sot out for court proceedings. In one case, this went on for over 2 months! Of course ALL of the animals HAD to be treated for various illness and injuries, they were not allowed to triage and humanely put down anything...they spent thousands treating animals, some heroically, that they KNEW were going to be put down just as soon as the court passed judgment on the previous owners. How stupid is that? Good money thrown away on unadoptable animals that could and should have gone to the ones that were adoptable. And I am sorry, but if you are going to confiscate livestock being raised/held for the sale barn or the dinner pot, then they should be taken to the nearest sale barn and sold.

It's all coming to a screeching halt. Then it really wont matter!

This slogan is on tee shirts, coffee mugs, videos. Just think, really think, about the message. "Adopt one" - no problem there. Unless of course you are a breeder and your dogs are not in shelters, up for adoption. Then you might just think it is an anti-breeder slogan.

But let's not dwell on that. Focus instead on "until there are none". UNTIL THERE ARE NONE. Do you get it? That is the end goal.

We get upset with the animal rights people over money and their tactics. We seem to be blind to where all this is leading. And just like Rome was not built in a day, they are working slowly but deliberately to eliminate our right to own animals. That is the bottom line.

So while you are thinking the HSUS and the animal rights groups do some nice things, well things that SEEM nice, our rights are being chipped away. Don't sit idly by thinking this is not about you. It is! And if we don't wake up, it will soon be too late.

I chose this quote to attach to but there were many others that I could have referenced.

Seriously people??? You truly think that the Humane Society, PETA, and other animal rights groups are after your rights and not, in fact, sick and tired of the gut wrenching abuse and neglect that they see day after day after day???? Really???

Ok, so you don't like their tactics but did you ever stop to think what has driven them to this point? The human garbage that these organizations come in contact with and the results of what this trash does to companion animals is enough to turn anyone's stomach.

So while you sit up there on your high horse complaining about your rights to breed, and I believe I have that right too, why don't you start thinking of ways to work with, rather than against these people?

These "Animal Rights" people are not after reputable breeders and you know it. But because of many bad apples, they have had to resort to attacking the whole bushel. But we as reputable breeders have helped get to this place by not turning in breeders we all know are not ethical, responsible or in many instances even humane!!!

Liberties are taken away when people don't follow the laws that are already on the books. And we, as citizens should have been keeping a watchful eye and not turning away when we saw something wrong. We all contributed to this and I'm not just talking about breeding, I'm talking about any liberty that has been or is about to be taken away.

Stop worrying about being so damned PC and speak up when something is wrong.

Thank you all for your time.

The end does not just the means

Ok so they are driven insane by abusive people so it's ok for them let "show dogs" out of their crates at dogshows so they can run up onto the road and be killed-but they are "freed"? They are so insane that animals are killed for food daily that they get laws passed to make meat and eggs more expensive and therefore push their "vegan" agenda? What about the poor who rely on eggs as a good source of protein in their otherwise meger diets?

Whatever, you believe what you're spoon fed from these groups, they DO NOT have the reputable breeder's best intentions in mind. They do NOT have farmers, breeders, or owners rights in mind. They want to END all animal use, PERIOD!

As stated above, "better DEAD than BRED!" that goes for ALL animals! Get a grip please! AR folks are NOT someone I want telling me how to enjoy my companions!

I am a breeder, but I also rescue, as do many reputable breeders. We see the abuse, neglect and abandonment as well, but we don't go around telling others how to take care of their animals. There are plenty of animal cruelty laws on the books throughout the country that take care of those bad people. We don't need more government control and intrusion. Heck, one of the biggest animal abusers got off nearly scott free for fighting, abusing, torturing and killing his dogs. That man, Michael Vick. He only served time for gambling/racketeering, but he only got probation for the animal abuse. And now, he's partnering up with the H$U$ and is their poster child. The ironic thing about it is that if it were up to the H$U$, they would have killed the rest of his dogs! It was the Animal Welfare groups that stepped in and took the dogs. They got little or no money from the H$U$ to help rehabilitate Vick's dogs. The sad part is though that the H$U$ ran huge campaigns seeking donations to "help" the Vick dogs. It's all about the money for them. It's no big secret they only donate less than 1% of their monies to actual hands on pet shelters. Too bad that most people (70%) falsely believe that the H$U$ is an umbrella group for all local pet shelters. They are not! Please donate and volunteer locally.

Sadly, many are unaware that groups like PETA and HSUS are not about animal welfare. While they use the animal welfare sentiment in order to get you to donate, their stated goal is quite simple. To end domestic ownership of animals.

While some of us today, say yeah, let's pass that law, because the other guy is a miller, a pet store, a byb'r. Well guess what? If you own an animal, you're a current or future target of HSUS, PETA, and other AR whackos.

While there are always bad apples, HSUS inspired laws and regs are not the answer. They play into the hands of the "legitimate" breeders now, but it's those very "legitimate" breeders that are next on the hit list.

The solution is easy. What should be outlawed is the purchase and sale of wholesale pups. Forget defining what a puppy mill is. Just make the law read that only the breeder can sell the pup.

Of course, you would need to be allowed to sell a couple per year to cover a breeder who buys a puppy(ies) and then running on them, decides to sell them as pets.

Also, I don't think I've seen a puppy in a pet store in years. Maybe the culture is changing without legislation. Of course, legislation would speed the process.

Good suggestion!!

That is a horrible suggestion!

Um HELLO this is America! Last I checked it was not against the law to sell animals. MOST commercial breeders produce a decent, healthy product. You and I may not agree with how they raise and sell their product, but this is still a free country and it is their right to make a profit. Get a grip

Yea, i was wondering the same thing. What makes me nervous is what Calif does, Vegas usually follows...as I'm waiting for my home inspection as we speak. So far, they just seem to want their $50 per year...but....whats coming?

I bet it happens! Not good.

Gregg, i've heard about those, do you believe that? Or a bunch of non-sense?

Quote:
The solution is easy. What should be outlawed is the purchase and sale of wholesale pups. Forget defining what a puppy mill is. Just make the law read that only the breeder can sell the pup.

Of course, you would need to be allowed to sell a couple per year to cover a breeder who buys a puppy(ies) and then running on them, decides to sell them as pets.

Also, I don't think I've seen a puppy in a pet store in years. Maybe the culture is changing without legislation. Of course, legislation would speed the process.


Me:
It's not that easy...because WHO defines what a BREEDER is? And what a PM is???? There lies part of the problem, everyone's interpretation is differant.

Patrick, it is going to disappear right before your eyes! If you keep thinking like that and your going to be left in the dust dude! This is becoming NOT a free country! And the slightest ignorance to that fact is saddening and scary.

http://hrdogs4adoption.blogspot.com/2011/07/faces-of-death-peta-ingrid-newkirk_1751.html

I agree. The elimination of sells or/and auctions of dogs and cats at commercial establishments would starve and kill the medium and big puppy mills.
The rest of the breeders can be monitored by the local animal control officers.
Puppy mills exist because they can sell their puppies in lots to pet shops all over the country.

We are ALL breeders, that is not the problem. The problem is the way the animals are purchased, kept, bred and sold/placed.
That's what sets apart the different types of breeders: Puppy mills, BYB, Pet breeders, show breeders, Field breeders, therapy dog breeders, etc.

Please actually read the Constitution and study a little history. "Right" and "freedom" are terms that you may not understand. While you are at it, do some research on what the founding fathers thought about "individual liberty" and what they meant by "happiness".