If you have done a dual breeding and have had the puppies DNA profile done by someone other than AKC, do you still have to redo the puppies DNA through AKC to be able to register the litters as dual sired?

Another ? if I may??? What if the female is yellow and the one sire was yellow and the other dominate black - therefore you would know all the black puppies were from one sire and the yellows were from the other....would you still have to do DNA to prove it?

TIA

AKC is the place to call. But AKC accepts only their DNA profiles.

You must have DNA for all puppies and both sires regardless of your other data. If the dam is closely related to either sire, you will need her DNA too.

I am sure you wouldn't be the first person to follow the logic of since the pups are all of one color they must all belong to that one stud. And after DNA testing it, I am sure the results would prove it. It depends on what you want to do.

If you kept your business to yourself, you can do what you want and just list the black sire as the sire and be done with it. If you told the whole world what your plans were and what your results were, you probably should follow through on doing the right thing.

Sigh.

Or, perhaps you could do the right thing because it's the right thing to do.

Why would you do a dual breeding and not want to do the required things to register the pups? You had to know going into this there would be a big expense to register them all.

And how dare the person say just register with the black dog!! Now everyone knows how your program is run!!

all JMO

Personally, I think all litters should be tested. I bought a bitch as a show prospect a few years back, finished her, and bred her just to discover that her pedigree is wrong. She was supposedly the daughter of a very popular and well known stud who was dominant black, and her dam was also dominant black. Because of this, I never color tested her. (also never Optigen tested her since both parents were clear).

I bred my girl to a Bc boy who was a PRA carrier.

Imagine my shock when my litter hit the ground and there were chocolate puppies in there.

I called the breeder who sold me the bitch and she admitted that she had a chocolate boy on the property at the time her bitch was bred to the well known BB dog. She had no clue that anything had happened and she was in denial for a while, but I had my bitch DNA tested against her dam and the choc dog to discover that she was not the bitch I bought.

I was furious, to say the least!!!! Thankfully, the choc dog was also PRA clear, so my girl was too. It would have been horrible to find that I bred a carrier to carrier.

Newsflash folks....accidents happen all the freaking time! Thank goodness the boy I liked carried choc. If he carried yellow or was BB I never would have known. Also, since Bc to By would have meant an all black litter too, if my bitch's real daddy was yellow I never would have known either.

Needless to say, that bitch has been spayed, placed, and her puppies are all gone too. I don't want to pass on an incorrect pedigree. It sucked to place a beautiful, finished bitch because someone didn't latch a gate 5 years ago.

Since sharing my story with good friends who are long time breeders over the last few years, I've discovered that this happens more often than we'd like to think.

Here is when I pick up the phone and call AKC and tell the story. The breeder will have an AKC inspector in the property soon enough. Also, I would have tried to find out who the real father is and correct the pedigree. If she was so wonderful, why on earth didn't you try to get all the information and just make her right???

Some well dedicated people do dual sire litters on purpose. Good gracious, I hope I never have your kennel name in my pedigrees.

That's an interesting thought. Once you DNA'd the dog and had proof of parentage, would AKC issue a corrected pedigree? I assume they would have to DNA test all pups produced to determine the correct sire, but at least you could have moved forward and, like the other poster said, corrected her offspring. You were actually pretty lucky to find out about the mistake as you did, rather than blindly move forward and cause unintended future problems.

My guess is that the whole litter will be voided until DNA tests are done on every body. If they can match the puppies to an AKC sire, I don't see why they wouldn't issue the new registration.
I'm sure the Breeder will be fined and everybody can move on.

Thanks Kate that is what I thought. Plans for the future, but since it took me over 6 weeks to get my boys DNA back from AKC, I have checked into a few others that do DNA and have a better turn around in time frame. My concerns on this were since you have to wait a few weeks after pups are born to do the swab, and it is taking so long with AKC- the pups would be 8 weeks or older before I could possibly know who belongs to who, register the litters and know who will be going to pet homes. The first stud is older and does not have that great of collection- but if possible I would really like a puppy from him. The second is younger and my second choice. Since this is to be the last breeding for my female, to use the older male, may result in 1-2 pups (if any) and using the younger male may increase my chances of a little larger litter. If I'm lucky and get what I am hoping for, coming down to final choices may be on "who's your Daddy?" I guess I could go with the other company, getting the results back in 7-10 days and if it is Dual sired repeat with AKC making it twice the amount in cost and further behind, or go with AKC from the beginning. Of course if I do this it would be planned and not a woopsie, I want to do it right and by the rules, my puppies leave my home with their papers. Any how.... I thank all for their wisdom.

One of the joys of keeping litters intact longer is that you have more time to make your choices about keeper puppies.

I think you can also order the DNA tests early. If you check with AKC, you might ask if they will take back unused tests so you might even be able to order the tests before the puppies are born and swab them immediately at birth.

Good luck with your litter.

Keep in mind that many dual sired litters turn out to only be sired by one dog (even when both dogs are collected and mixed and inseminated at the same time). If you really want puppies by the old guy, your best bet is to collect him and do a surgical implant. In the end you will save money over a dual sired litter and you will get the puppies you want. I wouldn't risk my first pick sire's sperm being over run by a second pick just to get more puppies. I would much rather have a litter of 3 or 4 of the breeding I want than 12 of a second choice.

I had to AKC DNA test a foreign bitch I purchased before she could be bred. When I ordered the DNA swab from AKC it was no charge until I submitted it.

You can order pre-paid or non pre-paid test kits.

I must agree with Breeder Also. Collect the older stud and do the surgical implant.
A question though to Breeder Also. Do you know why dual sired litters turn out to only be sired by one dog?

This is typically true even when both studs have good semen.

One of my yellow studs was bred chilled AI to a yellow bitch who we later found was (woopsie) bred. (the other dog was only visiting and left 4 days before the first chilled AI breeding)

My boy's semen looked great upon arrival and the bitch had 8 pups. Unfortunately there were 4 black pups in there......woopsie. They tested and all 8 puppies belonged to the other stud.

There is something called soldier sperm. If you google it, you will see that in populations where several males are fighting for the right to breed, their bodies will produce a percentage of sperm that does not seek eggs. Its sole purpose is to fend off, block, and in some cases kill sperm belonging to another male.

If I were you I would also plan to do a surgical with the older dog and just keep the young one on stand by in case there is a problem with the other dog's semen.

OMG, REALLY????????? you can't be serious! And if you are....oh my!

Yea, I dont get why they had her spayed. If she was finished, and lovely, and had better clearances, what the????? jmo

AKC requires that the dam(s) and sires be tested, so if a dam has pasted away or a stud dog without having an AKC DNA profile on file with AKC, your pretty much out of luck. AKC will not go off the word of who the mother is when the parentage does not check out. They require the mother, sire(s) to be checked along with all offspring, pulling all the papers of littermates from the litter in question including any and all offspring out of the dogs in question from any or all litters they have produced. The people who spayed thier girl, all her pups would have had their papers pulled because her parentage was not correct. This can affect several generations depending on when the mistake was discovered. Its a mess and AKC says they deal with over 1200 of these cases a month!! A lot found when people are submitting stud dogs for their DNA profiles.

If they tried to correct it with the AKC she would have had her registration voided and possibly never reinstated and her titles would have been revoked.

They won't even let you change a dog's name after its entered into one AKC event, do you really think they'd just correct her pedigree and let her keep any titles/clearances? The OFA would have a lot to correct as well.

Plus, you don't know the pedigree on the other dog that got the girl. He could be something that she didn't want in her kennel.

Yea, your right, I didnt think of all that. What a shame.