After serious consideration, I've decided to remove ED from my guarantee. I've had 3 cases in the last 10 years, and the 3 of them have been from multiple Lab's homes. They've always said in their first e-mail that Fido is limping, but it is probably nothing, just an injury because Fido plays too rough with his brother or sister. A month or two later they e-mail again saying Fido needs surgery and he is scheduled for tomorrow. Good for Fido that he is getting fixed. Bad for me is giving up a complete re-fund.
I'm I way out of line here? I've read about some breeders saying they do not guarantee elbows any more. What do you, knowledgeable breeders think?

Many breeders only "guarantee" general health of the puppy for the first 72 hours. Once the puppy leaves your home you have no control on what they do with that puppy or how they raise it.

I've had people jog 5 miles with a 5 month old puppy despite my telling them to wait until the dog is full grown. When the dog ends up limping later on, are we responsible for that?

I don't have elbows on my guarantee because I know all too well from personal experience how easy it is to break a dog by running it too much. And if you ask what happened to the pet owner, they don't know, they didn't do anything, of COURSE the dog didn't jump from the back of the truck constantly since it was 4 months old.

I have a hip guarantee on there, but ONLY against SEVERE dysplasia. Meaning if the dog cannot lead a normal life as a pet, and the rating comes back from OFA as SEVERE, then I refund. But not even for moderate, as we know that a dog can have HD and not limp.

What I do guarantee is that I have done all the testing required to PROVE mom and dad are as healthy as can be. I have also done the tests to prove that my stock won't have PRA or EIC. That's all I will guarantee.

I do not take responsibility for those elbows now or ever. Too many thoughtless owners who will allow a puppy to self destruct and point the finger at me.

And I really wish the rest of you would get on the same page, we need to take a united stand on this.

I had the Elbow guarantee in my contract until just recently when I went through a nightmare of a situation with a family over ED. This family on numerous occassions would email and tell me how "Fido" was playing rough today and is limping today, "Basically a what should they do email??" . Then against my guarantee they had the puppy fixed at 6 months old and mentioned the limping to their Vet who subsequently tells them that the puppy has ED and needs surgery. 7 month old puppy goes through surgery and now 6 weeks post-op I get an email from them telling me how much "Fido" enjoyed running on the Beach today with another dog and he is only limping now when he gets up from a long-rest. So I have once again emailed them my concerns and printed all the emails and filed them away.

Some family's just don't realize that they wouldn't ask their 2 year old to run a marathon or play rough why do they expect their puppy to do that?

I had a lady with one of my pups, tell me how her 6 mos old puppy was up to 5 miles a day running with her, and how he loved it. my contract specifically states no vigorous exercise, such as running, jumping, agility etc.( and why ) until 2 yrs of age. I reminded her of this, and that it was like taking a grade school child running 5 miles a day. she laughed it off; but contacted me 3 mos later, asking for me to pay her enormous vet bills, as her puppy was diagnosed with arthritis in his shoulders, and a bone chip in one elbow joint.
I reminded her of the contract, and she replied, she didn't have time to read it! she again asked me to compensate her for vet bills, I reminded her I have written records of her telling me of her running the puppy, against my advice and signed contract. never heard from her again.

Thanks for all the replays. Now I know I'm not the only one.
I cover any Congenital problems, but the elbows follow a pattern that makes me think that there is more of an environmental cause than genetic.
I educate my puppy buyer and instruct them to not force exercise the puppy until 18 month of age. Most or all follow my instructions. The ones that have other dogs at home are the ones that worry me. You can't really control how much or how rough a puppy plays with its home sibling. These are the ones that get hurt and I don't think I have to pay for it.
I was expecting different points of view, but it seems like everybody is in the same page.

ED is polygenic like CHD. Environment does not cause it~ It expresses it if the dog is predisposed. Not every puppy gets the genes for it and they grow up just fine and sound in the elbows regardless ~

You breed long enough, you are going to deal w/ ED at some point. It is genetic. I warranty for it. Always have. However, refund only takes place if surgery is warranted and done. Some ED cases, surgery will not help. Luckily, the two severe cases I've personally seen/dealt with(1 of my own breeding and 1 an import) were mine here w/ me. Pet families... No helping the pup if it can be helped.... no refund.

ED is one thing I always pray against not getting as it's hard on a pup/dog because it's the front end.

Are we breeders seriously going to bury our head in the sand about elbows too? Elbow issues are cropping up rather frequently yet I am constantly hearing breeders lament about how our pet buyers caused it in their pups. Well, how do we explain all the cases of ED cropping up in show prospects?

Come on guys--time to face the reality that ED IS a big issue in our breed and do something about it!!!!!! Removing an ED guarantee from your contract is not solving the problem. Likewise, continually making excuses for our breeding stock that has missing elbow clearances isn't being honest either. Our breed is a SPORTING breed and, as such, should be able to withstand a certain amount of wear and tear without breaking down.

I know ED is an issue with the line of bitches I have. Thus, I am very cautious when choosing stud dogs for my girls. And when a case of ED crops up, I DO stand behind my guarantee. FWIW, my dogs have multiple working titles. I want to physically put my dogs to the test to evaluate their structural strength in addition to their type and temperament. No dogs that just stand still wagging their tails and looking pretty for me-"pretty is as pretty does."

Beautifully said!