Remind me that a nice dog will still be considered for stud even with a Carrier result.

I guess it's a blessing he didn't end up a CNM carrier too.

He will be considered by folks who have the wisdom not to breed only to clearances but who look at the total package.
Will it mean fewer girlfriends for him? Yes, because too many take the path of least resistance.

Unfortunately, so many are NOT wise! LOL

It was just the icing on the cake of an already not fun day due to some non-dog related stuff. 50/50 chance and I get the Carrier. Poor Me!

He's a lovely boy with promise in the ring, and he'll still be fun.

EIC Testing is a TOOL. If breeders use the tools that are available to them, and the brains that they have - you will be just fine. Dont rule out an EIC carrier boy when there are so many EIC clear girls!

He probably will have as many inquiries as he would have had were he EIC clear, less all of the carrier/affected girls. There are several known carriers that are currently being used; however, most of them are mated to clear bitches.

I have a carrier bitch and had she been clear, I would not have worried about EIC status of a male. I won't breed a carrier to a carrier though.

Sorry, this is really just a pity party for me.

I just think about all those stupid folks that breed just to clearances and WON'T pick him because then if they keep something, they might end up with a carrier or have to test their whole litter before making a decision.

The pep talk is helping though!

Many wise Breeder friends who have gotten carrier results on either EIC or PRA have looked at the bright side and been happy that their dog is only a carrier and not affected and also if it rules out folks, then that's not a good breeding mate for their dog. As someone said, it's a tool. At least we now have the knowledge and CAN keep the dog who has produced a pup with "it", when we know they're a carrier and can breed to a clear.

Having said that, enjoy your pity party, we all need one once in a while. Hang in there...........

With so many that are carriers - aren't you concerned that the test is inadequate?

Don't worry about it at all. We are testing our girls. Mine have all come back Clear. So hopefully some have sense enough to pick the right dog, not breed to clearances. I have seen some ugly clear everything dogs. Have seen some Clear not producing very well. So enjoy your dog.

i would be thinking of if hes useful to you foremost. as i doubt he will get more than a handful of services, coming from someone who has a carrier male who was heavily used before the test, and not used since except by me

My carrier boy was still used by a lot of people. If he's that nice, people won't worry about his carrier status when they have clear girls.

I agree, my boy was a PRA carrier and was used alot. That is just one clearance. If he was what I wanted I would just test my females.

Your honey attracts me.

My clear boys get used. My carrier boys don't.
My Optigen boys get used, my B boys don't. And they won't.

Let's face it, any stud service I get pays the food and vet bill since I am not independently wealthy. I just love the hobby/sport of dogs. I only keep what I can show and breed and trial. Past experience tells me not to keep what isn't clear.

Would it be a bad idea maybe to charge a lower stud fee in the beginning? Might make people think they are balancing out fees as they may keep a pup or 2 and will want to have them tested? Once he is proven and is producing well than up his stud fee?
A thought?

For me, no, I think the test is fine. Interestingly, the last batch of carriers I brought up on Labradata, quite a few go back to the dog that's in my bitch's pedigree. Coincidence? Perhaps. But this is one famous boy...he's in alot of pedigrees, thus if my guess is on track, it certainly would explain the # of carriers around.

Not a bad idea although when the boys are ready, I personally start fees low until I know what they are producing etc.

He's a nice boy with alot of promise in his future, and this is not one of the MAJOR tests we do.

Thanks for the pats on the back folks.

Just test the girls, one of the cheapest test we do. And thank goodness we have it now. Use it as a TOOL. I breed to Optigen carriers, EIC carriers, and a Fair stud boy. Anyone who is just breeding to clears are just having puppies to sell. See way to many out breeding to heart problems and seizures that most likely will come back to bite them. Its the hiden genes we need to research now.

I know what you mean by "Just test the girls" but on the flip side you are going to have that faction of breeders who are saying "Just test the boys". So we have to do every known test on the boys. Bitch owners not doing EIC, not doing PRA, not doing hearts, but expecting and choosing only boys that are PERFECT.

Keeping a male in hopes of only thinking he is going to be used by other breeders is not the right reason to keep him. It is a long shot that he gets used anyway even if he is EIC clear. It can get very trival with reasons why some won't use a boy. I have a beautiful stud and one breeder who wanted to use him now does not simply because of a kennel name in his pedigree. If they won't use a stud for that reason then many will skip on using an EIC carrier. I have an outstanding male puppy that I kept. His mother is a EIC carrier and I bred her to an EIC clear stud. My male puppy came back as a carrier, did I decide to run on him and keep him anyway? Yes. Because I am keeping him for myself and I can use him in my breeding program and breed him to a clear girl. After testing this entire litter and seeing the percentage of clears that came back compared to carriers it was about a 2 to 1 ratio so I feel EIC can easiely be bred away from. JMO.

I disagree with this.

I have two brothers, one EIC clear, one EIC carrier. The carrier has been used by educated breeders who prefer him to his brother. Although he hasn't set the world on fire with stud records, he is a gorgeous boy with great wins/placements in the ring, and he has contributed quite a bit to food and vet bills. - that was said while rolling my eyes, btw.

I also know of some very popular studs who are PRA carriers.

I'm not independently wealthy either, but if my PRA/EIC carrier boy is nice, he's staying.

One woman bred her EIC carrier bitch to my clear boy and tested the entire litter to determine which pups she was going to keep. Turns out the two pick puppies were EIC carriers (one male and one female). She sold both to pet homes. I saw pics of the male and he was STUNNING!!

Breeders like her (IMHO) are idiots.

There is nothing wrong with carriers. I have one and have done well with him. I don't keep dogs based on a slip of paper with a stupid test result, I keep dogs because they are the best.

Breeder 44 obviously has a clear head on his/her shoulders. Definitely focussing on the right things.

I totally agree. I pick my keepers for my own reasons. It's not about having a stud that I can farm out. But I am sure that all of us have that fleeting thought...what if he does well in the ring....what if he does turn out nice....what if folks DO like his pedigree. I am sure we all think about that, but it's not the governing force in our choices.

Not every boy out there is tested for everything. Many of the girls are.

I just bred to a boy with no EIC testing, PRA clear by parentage and ACVO tested. He had all other clearances and an ECHO doppler.

My girl is ECHO doppler clear, EIC tested, is PRA tested and her Acvo form went to Cerf.

If I trust the breeder, I go ahead without an EIC clearance b/c my girls are tested and clear. PRA, well it depends on who I'm thinking of using. If I know and trust them, I will go ahead with clear by parentage but not with someone I don't trust. 1 generation of clear by parentage, that's it. The next better be tested in my girls and the boy I use.

I see many bitch owners with girls that have every clearance possible so don't clump all bitch owners together.

Some stud dog owners don't think the way you and Breeder 44 do. They want a boy that will be bred to and help with their costs for showing & living.

Some stud dog owners & breeders want to build their new home off the money brought in. Others claim publicly that if they don't bring in dollars xxx, they can't live through the next week, month or year.

Usually, when they're that blatantly honest about their *goals* it blows up in their face. Stud Dogs aren't income producers. Well they shouldn't be on a regular basis. Sure, a stud fee may come in at the same time a bitch needs to be bred but that can't counted on. Maybe the water heater needs replacing the week you get 3 stud fees. Sheer luck but don't count on it. To keep a boy with the idea he's going to be a money maker b/c he's used by others is wrong. Keep him because he's an asset to the breed and possibly your own breeding program.

Oh please, don't come in a pretty decent thread and cause crap. Generalities, folks. Get that chip off your shoulder if you feel the need to come in and cry "I test my girls, I test my girls" Good for you. SO DO I. For every one of us that tests our girls (tests all our dogs) there are those that don't. It wasn't a finger-pointing session, so stop feeling the need to defend yourself.

I have an affected girl. I found it very difficult to select a male for my girl because the boys that I was truly interested in (complimentary pedigree and breed type) didn't have an EIC clearance. In the end, I used a clear boy and liked my litter. Was he my first choice - no. I will now have to wait another 1-2 generations to improve on those same lingering traits from girl when I'm looking again for yet another EIC clear.

We all have challenges in this game. I just had a litter of 5 done from a carrier and a clear. ALL are carriers. So much for statistics. Pardon me if I don't cry over your ONE dog that is a carrier.

Talk about chips on shoulders. Try dumping your attitude. No one cried they test their girls. I don't see it. The thread was still *pretty decent* until you said something. I'm glad you test your girls. I wonder if you test for TVD too with that attitude. I test mine too for anything and everything partly because I find too many stud dogs aren't tested. I'm not in the mood to shoot any more crap with any disease out there.

Take your attitude elsewhere, there was no problem on this thread until *you* began it.