I rarely speak up about things like this which create bad threads, but all I can say about this last comment is OMG, how unrealistic. The reason I say that is that it would be nice if it was that easy. . I can remember 15 years ago when I got started....it takes relationship building....think of all the long time, influential breeders out there. You can't just call them up and say "yes, I'd like to buy a bitch with an outstanding pedigree with a good front please." Sometimes you just do the best that you can do. Hopefully you have a mentor or friends that can be honest with you or give you a hand.

Poster, look for the best dog that not only has a good front but is balanced. Breed to the whole dog, not just a piece. I can say with certainty that some of these long time breeders can be called and talked to comfortably. They will tell you what their dog can and cannot do. Besides, it's a great way to get to know people....good luck! I can think of a number of dogs and their breeders that I would call.....

Sue Puff

I am responding with some hesitation because there must me numerous dogs out there who have and are consistently producing correct front assemblies. But, one I do know, and bred to when he first came to the States, is James ... Beechcroft Study's Top Secret. I have been in the same situation, as many of us have been ... trying to improve upright fronts/short upper arms in an otherwise nice bitch. James did a wonderful job for me, as did Ghoststone Louie Downtown in the previous generation of this bitch line. Unfortunately, neither is currently available, but the bloodlines are out there.

Yes, relationship building does take a long time, and it should. I did it, and 8 years later I was offered a really nice bitch that comes from a long line of beautiful fronts. This was after years of attending shows just to watch, having boys that I competed with in hunt tests and obedience, and finally show. This enabled me to learn a lot about the breed through wonderful mentors who gave me an invaluable education. I got involved in my breed club and have been active for years. By the time I bred my first litter, I was ready. That litter produced several champions and many performance titled dogs, including a MH.

I think what is unrealistic is to expect to be in the breed 5 minutes and be handed a nice bitch for breeding. It happens, but not often. While this coincides with many people's desire for instant gratification, it really does nothing for the breed when breeders know very little about the breed prior to breeding. The time taken to build relationships and pay one dues also provides the learning experiences necessary to become a responsible breeder.

"Why do people start with medicore fronts?"

People start with mediocre fronts because good fronts are hard to find. When we do breed one, we're not about to sell her to someone else.