I'm sorry you're going through this - been there, done that, though not a pregnant girl. How old is she?

Thank you.
She just turned 4, if she's pregnant this will be her 2nd litter.

Ann,
So sorry that you are going through this with a bitch that you bred, and that she has other pups. The one good is that she and her relatives should have good DNA to help the epilepsy search in this breed, if you don't find a good reason for her seizures.

Is her thyroid possibly LOW NORMAL? The show quality rescue I had stopped seizing much at all when supplemented even though her thyroid was low normal, as opposed to low or normal. The biggest mistake I made was being talked out of thyroid supplementation on low normal, and the best thing was soloxine and thyroid glandular, plus some phenobarbital. She lived a mostly normal life, free of grand mal cluster seizures, until 15.5 years. I still miss that girl!

I'll get in touch with my Vet Monday about the thyroid levels.

I'm a total wreck. Has anyone had a pregnant girl have seizures, and would you terminate the pregnancy? All blood/lab work normal. I just don't want to assume epilepsy. If there is any chance my girl could have a litter safely please give me your advice. Thank you.

Ann,
I'm so sorry for what you are going through with your girl. Do you have a Veterinary Neurologist in your area? If so, a consultation may help give you the information and answers you are looking for. My thoughts are with you both.

She might NOT be pregnant, even though she was bred. I don't know what is the best way of dealing with this for her safety. If she is pregnant, another of your options is letting her have the pups and placing them with full disclosure as pets gratis or close to it OR placing through a rescue that will let you remain anonymous but tell folks the mother had seizures. If it is genetic epilepsy, surely they can't all seize, although a high percentage of them may certainly do so. I don't know what is safest for HER,if termination might be safest or worse for her, and that is where veterinary input is critical. A neurologist could maybe help on the probabilities end, as could a discussion with the researchers. I would also ask Joan's advice, and her point of view. One of my favorite dogs was a Lab with epilepsy, so I have one point of view. There was a little buzz, with folks were watching when a show trained girl came into rescue, and someone knew she had seizures. I just had to find that out as time went on. I was lucky, as was she, that her epilepsy could be controlled. She had a chance at life, and I don't regret that. Your girl is still your girl, with only a few moments in each month when she slips into another plane. The Labs do give us so much of themselves. Please don't feel that you have to terminate the adult. You will get through this, even though this is not all part of your plan.
Why do bad things happen to good people and good dogs?

I don't have any advice for what you should do if she is pregnant but if you decide to terminate do not end her pregnancy with a drug, do a spay. The pharmaceuticals used for ending pregnancy have severe consequences and she could end up a lot worse.

I agree with spaying in regards to terminating pregnancy. I would recommend that the spay take place where over night post-op care is available because of the risk seizures. I'm so sorry for all the stress you are experiencing. Best wishes and positive thoughts go out to you and your special girl.

Thank you all for your advice and support.

Ann...Please let us know how you make out with your girl.

I have epilepsy, it is part of my life and not the end of it! It isn’t for your girl either or her pups if she is pregnant and it is in fact a hereditary condition. As scary as it was to witness her seizure and as scary as my seizures are for people who witness mine, they are something that I have gotten use to and you girl will to if she has more. They wipe me out physically and mentally but frankly they are easier to take then the daily medications that are prescribed to me for my seizures.

If dogs are anything like me....I have more seizures when I am alone then when I'm with people. I wonder how many seizures dogs have when they are alone? How many have seizure disorders that go undiagnosed?

Like many of these comments have mentioned, often there are many outside influences that can cause seizures and it doesn't always mean it has to be hereditary. My suspicions are that just like in humans, there's no clear answer to what causes them or how to control them.

I hope that you can take comfort in that if I was face with the decision of trading my epilepsy with any of the other ‘conditions’ that we do clearances for....I would take seizures hands down!

Good Luck with your girl. Comforting her is the best medicine.

Thank you for your support. It is greatly appreciated. You have a lot of strength, I admire you.

Yes Ann. I've been there. I did not terminate the pregnancy. Pups were placed in loving homes who knew of the potential issues. I DID send mom's blood to the seizure study along with samples from each pup after mom continued to have the occasional seizure. If nothing else comes from this situation, at least I sent valuable data in to try to help unlock the mysteries of seizures in labradors.

So Sorry for your situation. Just want to mention that low blood sugar seizures are actually common in smaller breeds with pregnancy but are usually later in pregnancy. Was she possibly fed later or less than usual?

One thing that irks me with lab values after seizurse is none of the vets get the dog in within a half hour of seizing. You will not see low blood sugar unless tested as soon as possible after the seizure as the sugar stores kick in. As an RN, I know blood levels are drawn right away in the hospital with a seizure and then again 24 hours later.

A friend with a top dog in AKC of another breed had seizures in her pregnant bitch, she went to 2 different vets for official diagnosis and blood work. Neither could tell her anything. I told her to give honey or corn syrup as soon as she saw any seizure signs. A week later she had a chance to try it. She gave the corn syrup right away on the gums. The seizure stopped totally within 25 seconds of putting corn syrup on the gums and the girl was up and running normally.

If you are sure it's epilepsy, that's one thing. However, seizures can be for other reasons also.

What kind of heart worm are you using?

I had a family using "Revolution" on their pup. They had used it for two months and both times, within a day or two of application he would have a petit mal seizure that would last seconds and then nothing the rest of the month.

They live in an agricultural area so I had a gut feeling it could be environmental/chemical related so we went thru a long discussion of what was going on when each seizure occured. We hit on the relationship between the application of the Revolution and the seizure. Once they stopped using the Revolution, there has never been another seizure.

I would agree with "So Sorry" and the comments about the low blood sugar, taking care to keep you girl safe but before you jump off a bridge of no return, put your thinking cap on and be sure there isn't something else going on that may factor in here.

It is believed, in inherited epilepsy, both parents must be carriers. So if the sire of the litter is not a carrier, the puppies should never seize. You have to hope, if it is inherited epilepsy, he is not a carrier. I would not jump to conclusions and throw out the babies with the bath water. Slow down, take some deep breaths. Time will tell - there is nothing you can do about it now.

Plus, your girl's seizures may be caused by something environmental or who-knows-what. Sometimes, the best decision is to decide not to decide. This sounds like one of those times.

has this girl been EIC tested?

Yes, she tested clear.

How is she doing Ann?

Ann,
Sorry to hear this- you should try to rule out low calcium, including electrolytes, AED levels, glucose, and toxicology screen. As another poster posted, this is not a death sentence. Keep a calendar of seizures, treat your bitch as the vet instructs and if she is pregnant, so be it. Place as pets.
I wish you the best.



All,
This is a little off topic but this just came across my desk, for anyone who might know of dogs affected by seizures:
NC State is hosting a clinical trial for dogs. Info can be found here:
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2013/08/your-dog-has-issues-with-epilepsy.html?ana=twt

Thank you. All levels are within normal range. I will look into the website you posted.

Check out the food. Some additives can cause seizures. Changing to a non-preserved food made the difference for the one we had. She started seizing at three. After trying different things (since the vet ruled out epilepsy) the dog stopped seizing with the new food. Never had another for the rest of her life.

I had three dogs have seizures when I switched to grain free. Two from one line, one from another. Interestingly -- all within 15 minutes of eating. One day -- all three at the same time. One girl had a second grandmal a week after being taken off the food. Nothing since and it has been over 2 years.

Vet called it quite quickly. Fed milk thistle for 8 weeks to clean out system.

Good luck!

[
I have never heard of being able to rule out Epilepsy, how exactly did your vet do that? I have heard of ruling out other causes, leading to the diagnosis of Idiopathic Epilepsy. Or finding another cause, therefore ruling out Idiopathic Epilepsy. [/quote]

In my dog, who started having seizures at 6, Epilepsy was ruled out via CT scan. There were changes to the brain that are not seen in dogs with epilepsy. The vet called in the middle of the scan to let me know it was definitely not epilepsy.