First time doing a frozen semen surgical insemination:
Monday did the first progesterone: 0.3.
Thursday second progesterone: 0.5.
Debated with vet and Semen Bank when to do next, since vet does not take appointments on the weekend, he said Monday, semen bank said TUESDAY (I was not comfortable with this). Over the weekend, the behavior in the pack was insane, especially on Sunday, figured she ovulated then.
Monday morning at 8:00AM called the semen bank to ship the tank then, they said they could not ship until Tuesday. Since I did not have any progesterone numbers to push my point, I brought her in for another progesterone Monday late afternoon and waited.
Tuesday AM, the results from Monday 5:00 pm draw: 11.3! So, if the progesterone doubles every day after 5.0, she most likely ovulated Sunday afternoon.
The semen bank felt that this timing was right, three days after ovulation.
My vet did the surgical insemination at about 11:30AM on Wednesday....
My question is: for those who have had experience with Surgical Inseminations, what was your experience, and what was successful?
BTW, the motility was between 30-50% according to my vet, the semen bank did not seem to think that was a problem.
I think you will be fine, the timing is perfect for wednesday. I wouldn't worry about the post thaw motility, they send what is correct in numbers for a breeding so in this case it takes a little more.
I bred my maiden bitch back to her grandfather who had passed away the year before
her progesterone on monday was 4.3,
wednesday 7.4 ,
figuring she ovulated tuesday evening, we did a surgical implant and bred on friday, 60 days later she delivered 11 puppies. The post thaw motility was less than 50% as well.
Usually do frozen implant at 20 with Dr. Hutchison
Wow, Tiffany, I am encouraged by what you posted---11 puppies from a frozen insemination? Congratulations, that's crazy good! My vet said 48-60 hours, semen bank said "3 days" (which covers a lot of ground!). It was probably about 66-72 hours from ovulation to insemination, know that's on the edge of her being fertile. Fingers crossed. I will post and let everyone know as soon as I know!
I think you will be OK...but please tell us what semen bank you used that would not ship when you asked. I want to be sure to never use them. You contact them early in the AM, and they won't ship?? What was that about??
Although you have a smaller amount of time to breed with frozen semen then fresh, it sounds as if you were spot on to me. Actually for fresh, chilled or frozen.
I've bred a few times to frozen, never missed and most litters were 7 to 8 puppies. Remember, the girls don't always ovulate at 5 ng-ml, it's between 5 & 10, some say 8 but it depends on the bitch.
http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu/eiltslotus/theriogenology-5361/k9_breeding_management.htm
Read this Chart!
http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu/eiltslotus/theriogenology-5361/k9_bre5.gif
or
Your packs' behavior probably meant she was more than likely close to ready. Did this behavior continue through the surgical insemination?
I really do think you caught it, just in time which is where you want to be. Remember the semen went directly into the uterine horn-horns, not having to race through the cervix to get to mature eggs ready to be fertilized. The AKC via Dr. Hutch claims it's the most successful way of breeding. http://classic.akc.org/vetoutreach/headlinenews_13.cfm
I've seen frozen semen under the microscope immediately before a breeding of a girl of mine. No one told me what percentage the collection was or should have been at freeze thaw but a lot of the sperm appeared dead to me. I saw more dead than live. First a belly, then 8 puppies later I let out a sigh of relief.
Please try to post when you know something. I think it might help others not to breed too early especially when their regular vet doing prog. levels tells them to breed at a 5.0. Some breeders panic when their bitch reaches 5.0 because of it, there's no reason to. Jmo.
BTW, Do you know how many straws were used?
Hi, you have provided me with a lot of helpful information, thank you so much, I appreciate your informed response!
Having done many, many breedings in my lifetime, I am familiar with progesterone timing, and can say that in 25 years of breeding, only once did I miss, pretty good track record! But frozen is new to me, and I got conflicting information from my vet and the semen bank, so I was a little insecure about timing. Plus this bitch spiked really quickly, going from 0.5 on Thurs. noon to 11.3 on Monday pm (4 days). So when did she ovulate? I'm guessing Sunday night, since the progesterone doubles every day after 5.0.
To answer your questions, my male (young and inexperienced) was most interested Sunday through Wednesday. Wednesday night and Thursday, still lots of interest. Friday, less, although I did not have them together again until Monday. My bitch never did swell a lot, but even now, over a week later, her vulva still a bit swollen, and my male still sniffs her, interested, every morning. The interesting thing, behavior again, is that she is a little quieter, more tired, wants tummy-rubs, instead of racing around outside with the other dogs---a good sign!
No straws, but pellets, and they provided the proper amount of pellets to equal one breeding. Even my vet said they provided the proper amount of pellets.
Thank you again for providing information and reassurance from your experience, never any guarantees, but it made me feel better! And yes I will let you know as soon as I find out. I am remaining positive!
Well.....as it turned out, did the ultrasound, and my bitch did NOT get pregnant, so we did not catch it in time, and the semen bank will be hearing from me (as you remember, they said they could not ship the semen the morning I asked them to).
I am mad at myself for not demanding they ship that day or driving up to the semen bank (5 hours away), or having enough imagination to think of a "Plan B" dog (no local dogs in my area that would have fit the bill for my bitch).
Anyway, lesson learned, always follow your gut and ask for what you want. Regrets are a terrible thing to have!
Everything else was in place, bitch healthy and normal, the only thing that was amiss was the timing, as usual! :-0
I'm so sorry...very disappointing. Thank you so much for posting again for us. That was pretty selfless.
Thanks for the update but sorry it isn't better news.
Since Fedex delivers on Saturday they have Monday's off.
Hmmmm This is the second post today that said progesterone doubles every day. That is not correct. Once it hit 5.0, it goes up 5 more every day. So, after hitting 5.0, the following days would be 10, 15 and 20. Hutch ran a progesterone when he did a surgical on my girl 3 days after she hit 5.0 It was 22.0 She had 12 puppies!!!
I'm sorry you missed, but the timing was right on looking at the numbers.
Tiffany that is a really good idea, and I will do that, was considering that for next time anyway.
Well, from what I'm hearing from several people on the forum and others, three days after hitting 5.0 is considered good timing. I will maybe poll the forum about that in a separate post, to compare other breeders' experiences.
I really value the comments and support from those who responded---thank you, that's what this Forum is all about!
By the way, she would be due Saturday, and appears pregnant, except for no big belly. So she's in a major false pregnancy. Teats are prominent, she is tired and lovey-dovey, ravenously hungry, just no puppies!
I'd treat her as possibly pregnant just to be safe. Since she was bred and has some signs, is it possible that she has only one or a couple puppies? A friend has a champion from a bitch who was "definitely not pregnant" on relaxin tests, ultrasound, x-ray, etc. The two pups only appeared on x ray the day she was whelping! Then there was the rescue who had SEVEN puppies tucked somewhere under her rib cage invisibly. . . until we got the call from the boarding kennel who had only had her 10 days that there were two pups and more on the way. I realize that it is unlikely, but after all you put into this breeding and for her health, better safe than sorry.