Don't worry so much. Everything should be fine. Get enough towels and be prepared for a long delivery. You should have cal-sorb and nutrical at hand. Make sure you can call your vet in the middle of the night if needed.

Sleep while you can and good luck!

I am so worried! Last night I found out the Vet started not having emergency service 6 months ago and now only weekdays until 10:30.
The Vet said not to worry, she has a lot of puppies.
This morning the puppies are all active. She can only sit with her head down, depressed or lay down. When she is down she urinates on herself. She can only be fed by hand or with a spoon because she can't get her head down. She has quit losing her footing which is good. I feel like such a bad mom.
I ordered extra milk and supplements and they will be here Monday. One week to go so the puppies will live.

you can plan a c-section as soon as her progesterone comes down. That will get her over it faster. It sounds like she might not be able to start contracting if she has the uterus so distended.
Poor mommy, it is going to be a long week for all of you.

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU, LAB MOM AND PUPS

Don't worry? I would be worrying. Years ago I might have said the similar about a large litter except calsorb during labor. With that many possible spines and definite heads, if it where my girl I would schedule a planned C-section using the absolute best, most experienced vet or repro vet found with many hands to help deliver that many pups.

Most girls can't deliver more then 10 pups without running into a tired uterus (suffering from dystocia) and body. 15 to 20 pups, no way her and her uterus won't be exhausted. The amount of exhaustion depends on length of labor and the size & positioning of the pups.

Is this girl related to the one that delivered so many live whelps without any problems? If she is closely related she might be able to do it too but do you want the word might in your vocabulary for this large litter? I wouldn't and I've never yet had to schedule a c yet. I would for this size litter find the best vet with much experience in C-sections with large litters.

You could also call a repro vet for a phone consult.

Good luck.

Keep her as calm and quiet as you can. Do what you need to do to buy extra days. Every one counts. Go for a scheduled C-section during hours. Why wait for an ER? Do progesterone levels if possible before the C-section. If she begins labor on her own before a scheduled c-section, you can't rely on a progesterone level of 2ng. Wishing you lots of luck.

We have a scheduled C on Thursday. The Vet want's to call in extra hands but isn't a repro vet. So far her temperature is holding and she is eating if I hand feed her.
I think I will call a repro vet Monday if she can hold on and stay calm. That is such a good idea but a long trip for her. I turned off the lights last night and looked at the x-ray and I counted 17 sculls.
This girl isn't related to the other girl anywhere close in the pedigree.

Are you scheduling a c-section because she is having a large litter? There's a big difference between 15 and 20.

Spines and heads in x-rays look much larger than they really are. In that case, it's easy to count puppies twice and if your vet is not a repro vet, he might not be the best person to depend on.

Let her try to have them naturally. Don't assume the worst. If she is full of puppies, she won't feel like eating much. That is normal. Offer food several times a day in very small amounts. If she is resting a lot, that is normal. She is gathering her strength for the big day. Ask a fellow breeders to come over and help you when the time comes but don't panic......It won't help you or your bitch. Just get all your gear in order and sit tight. It will be fun.

I had 14 puppies a few years ago and all went well with no problems. Hope you have the same experience.

I wouldn't cut my bitch unless she is having problems. I would let her try.

Here, here. Agree. A C-section is surgery. Dogs die in surgery. Why go there unless you have to.

It's easy for you to tell the OP to let her bitch try to whelp 17 pups or possibly more. If something goes wrong, that way you have nothing to worry about. Only she does because it's not your bitch.

How about as said already, have a phone consult with a repro vet? It could even be Hutch for under $50. Send the x-ray through e-mail or FAX to the consulting repro and let them count. You could also have another done as it's getting closer to the due date, even at the very beginning of labor.

I could tell you Hutchs' answer if there are that many pups. He told me not to allow my girl to free whelp 12. All pups were born live and fine. I never had a girl have a C-section prior.

OP just a suggestion or 2. If you do allow her to try to whelp the litter do you have breeder friends for some moral and physical support? You'll probably need it and extra supplies. If you posted an e-mail address, I can write to you if you're not too far away and I'll come assist during whelping or after a c-section

Also, plan on splitting the litter for nursing every 1.5 to 2 hours. If she has 17 there aren't enough teats as you already know. Let them all get some colostrum first, mark them and do at least 2 nursing teams for the first 10 days. Ask the repro if you should supplement and if so when. Make a list of questions for the repro so you don't forget something while speaking about another.

I hope it all goes well. Sending Good Karma to you and your girl.

From facebook they have a video of using a makeup sponge for feeding puppies (supplimenting) and on the repro site there was a suggestion of having the ex-foliating gloves to get a better grip when helping with a stuck puppy.
I would do a planned c-section. With a large number chances are your bitch will tire and not be able to deliver them all and you'll be going in for a section under an emergency situation. With a stuck pup that chances are you'll lose. Why not have it planned?

If your bitch gets tired, she will rest and feed her puppies. She may have several pauses in her whelping to gather strength for the next push. You should read Myra Savant's books about the mortality rate for bitches during c-section.
Nature made a lot of puppies so that you could afford to lose some during the whelp. But you have only one bitch in a whelp. She is your first priority.

I agree with you. All it takes is 1 of 15 to 20 stuck pups. With that many pups it should be planned especially with her vet unavailable except office hours.

We should all look at Facebook for your information about ex-foliating gloves and the makeup sponge. It sounds enlightening. I never heard of either before. Thanks for bringing it up.

Good luck to the bitch owner.

"

Well, I took her to emergency because she seemed in distress. They refused to do the c-section. She whelped 5 puppies in distress and was some time in between. The Vet wanted me to wait. She was not doing well and a dead pup was born so I got her to the Vet for emergency. We ended up with elven live pups and a torn uterus and a spay.

Congratulations and I hope everyone does well! Sorry to hear a C-section and spay was necessary. So she had 12 puppies total? Were they large puppies? Now the fun begins, Good Luck!

We lost a premie today. He was one of two that I am/was bottle feeding. They were half the size of the other pups.

She has ten left and lost six puppies. She and the babies are doing really well for being five days early. The Vet gave me some medicine that she calls Geritol for the old dogs to help build her up from the loss of blood. She does't like it but I can see a marked improvement.

What happened was triplets. Two were born and I had to cut the cords which I am sure killed the third and it was downhill from there.

Who would have known this would happen. Thank you for all of your advice.

Sorry to hear of your losses. When you said triplets, I wondered if you meant that they all shared the same placenta? Was the uterus torn during the c-section?

Congratulations on your babies and the fact that your mother dog is doing well.

Yes they all shared the same Placentia. I am wondering about that tear because the same Vet did another emergency a few years ago for us and the tear was in the same spot and she was spayed. The Vet said he tried to patch it but couldn't. This Vet was the closest to me and I didn't have a choice, mom couldn't even walk and had to be carried to the car and then transferred to a gurney.

It's done and I'm not going to dwell on it, she is a sweet pet now.

Only 2 were premies? What happened to the 5 that were whelped at home?

I have never experienced twins or triplets, did you see 3 cords attached to one placenta? Sometimes a pup comes out without the placenta and that doesn't mean they were sharing it.

I'm sure she knows for sure there were triplets. Do you have to see it yourself to believe it? Others have had them too sometimes knowing for sure also because they were born surgically. All were attached to the same placenta at the time of the C-section. I've only heard of this happening twice before but it does happen lots more. I watched 1 breeder questioned heavily, asked if she had photographs of the common occurrence in nature of identical twinning or triplets. She didn't bring a camera for an emergency C-section with her bitch.

Identical multiples can hold up the rest being born because they're in the same sack.

Congratulations on your puppies Been There 2. I'm sorry about your losses and the Emergency spay. You counted right at around 16-17 skulls. I'm glad your bitch is doing better and hope her and the remaining pups continue to heal, grow and thrive. Thank you for posting the results of your experience. This could happen to anyone.

Yes! I remembers a big discussion about twins and triplets a few years ago on Woodhaven. Very interesting!!

I also appreciate the poster sharing her experience and I would like to learn from it. I can understand finding multiple puppies in one sac at a c-section but you said "I'm sure she knows for sure there were triplets." How does one know??? Can you explain this to me? Puppies come out one at a time, no? and she said the 5 were whelped "with some time in between". This is an interesting topic but there is very little written about multiples that I can find even in an advanced-repro textbook. I did find that twining in dogs is very rare though, one in a million! and it can only be confirmed with a c-section. Couldn't find anything saying triplets were possible.

What happened to the 5 whelped at home before the c-sec?

I can't comment on the original poster's experience with twins and or triplets since I was not there, but I think I am probably the person referred to as having had a litter with twins and triplets which was discussed on another forum.

I have seen photographs taken of twin puppies which does show the two umbilical cords coming from the shared placenta. While rare, this can happen.

For my bitch's second litter everything progressed normally and at first everything started fine, but with hard labor, every other puppy came out dead with no placenta. After losing two this way I took the bitch in and another dead puppy was whelped, again with no sack and no placenta.

When the vet performed an emergency C-section, and I was present in the OR, he exclaimed that now he knew what had happened since he began delivering a pair of twins. All the multiples shared a sack and a placenta, but each puppy had its own umbilical cord. Then he announced he was having difficulty with an additional set of twins, until he exclaimed that they were actually triplets!!! The puppies shared one placenta with umbilical cords coming out from the shared placenta. The smallest puppy was one of the triplets. We had no camera, but the vet, myself and four techs were all present during the surgery. We lost three puppies (all were twins) prior to surgery but all the remaining puppies delivered by C-section, including the triplets, survived. The smallest girl, the triplet, was not as developed physically as her littermates, and we were concerned about her skin, ( which was at risk of sloughing off) but she was totally caught up with her siblings by three days of age. Needless to say, she turned out to be a wonderful dog, very smart and totally fearless.

My vet had been in practice for over 40 years, dealing with many breeders of various breeds, and this was his first case of triplets.
I did not breed this bitch again.

Best of luck with your new litter!

Yes the three pups were attached to one Placentia, the last one was drained and the afterbirth was soft and came out with the dead pup. I lost one tiny yesterday after a battle to live.
I've seen twins but never had the three.

I had a litter the day before from a different female on the way to the emergency. Those pups were huge and they let me use a room to finish up before taking the two girls home. The puppies born before the c section are healthy and strong and are the same size as the big pups or pretty close to the same today.

Reading your posts you said all would be in the same sack. They all had their own sack and I had to cut the cords on two after pinching it and clamping it to shut of the blood flow. The cords were hanging out of mom until the last pup on the afterbirth came out. He had his own sack but because the afterbirth had started to detach he was dead. I worked on him for a while.

So, what I'm asking are they true triplets? I have never seen two in the same sac.

I am not a vet, but I have heard that sometimes placentas in close proximity with another placenta may fuse into one . This would explain the separate sacks. In your case, with so many puppies packed into the uterus, it could be likely that some of the placentas did fuse.

Were there actually 15-20 puppies?

She said there were 16, she lost 6 and wound up with a C-section anyway. Read up above.

Here ya go:

The story is so convoluted it's hard to believe.

Another 1? I do believe it and please don't call me the OP, I'm not!