Are people really paying $1200/$1500 for dogs that don't even have a single point and/or title?

I cannot wrap my mind around the thought of Champion dogs (with Champion get) getting equal or lesser stud fees than these young unproven dogs. I can't believe we award this by using them.

I have never agreed with the philosophy of a service equal to a puppy. I have always felt people should get paid for the amount of work they put into something. As a stud dog owner, my job takes no where near the energy and effort it takes to raise a litter of puppies for 8 weeks, interview puppy families, wellness exams, ACVO exams, etc. So in turn, I do not feel I should get the same amount. Just my opinion! Do to the fact all of us don't get the same price for a puppy, I guess it would be smarter to just take a puppy back and re-home it if you want to maximize you stud fee. From a business perspective, that is the smarter thing to do.

In this economy, SPEND YOUR MONEY WISELY!

Titles are nice but they don't mean a thing in my decision to use a boy.

Yes, the prices have gone to $1200 and up. If not today they will be by the 1st of January. I will pay $1200 for the right stud dog with or without titles yet. If the breeder typically finishes her stud dogs, I'm not concerned. Some boys develop slower then others.

Pedigree research and conformation mean lots to me as well as trust in the stud dog owner. Above $1200 is price gouging in my opinion unless it's frozen semen from a very special dog that isn't available any longer.

I have a lot to say about your post.

You're speaking of a 'Business perspective' ? Are your dogs and litters a business, hobby or both? Is a puppy turned over to the stud dog owner the way to go? Not for me but I'm not in business. My puppies sell for more than a $1200 stud fee to pet homes. If there was a pup the stud dog owner was interested in then perhaps the stud fee plus the difference in dollar amount that I get for my puppies would be acceptable. If I was closer to the stud owner, I would charge less but I have a heart and trust is implicit. Handing over a pet puppy to be sold as payment for a stud fee isn't my way of doing things. I'm not wealthy but if breeding a litter, you need to have a certain amount of money available. It's for the breeding, whelping and raising of a litter. If money is that tight, don't bother doing it.

Did you know for the stud owner to sell a litter puppy not turned over through AKC that they didn't co-own is considered brokering. Obviously you didn't know that. The bitch owner should sell all of their own puppies. I want to meet the prospective owners, don't you want to know where your puppies will live and with whom?

To save $200 I will not use a lesser stud dog. There are certain clearances I do on my girls that I expect from the stud dog, same as I do on my girls. There are pedigrees I like and don't like. I won't save money and use a lesser pedigree.

We all know where the price increase began. It almost always starts with a certain breeder who has or have several stud dogs who are usually the flavor of the month. I have never used that breeder's dogs for stud service and never will for good reasons.

A $200 difference for a top boy that doesn't have all of his points yet is better then using a boy that finished at 1 year with a top handler, then turned out totally different later on, jmo.

So not everyone has gone up yet but they will. $1200 is now the going rate. A $200 raise is not a massive amount and I don't own a stud dog. Give the majority of stud dog owners a break. They usually have bitches to breed too.

Stop whining and don't look at a litter as a business. The stud dog owner does a lot of work too, before and even after the breeding.

We all have the option of breeding to a $1,200/1,500 dog or not. Keep looking if you feel you're being taken advantage of. But also think about how few and far between the good ones are. Think about the years and years of breeding that the stud dog owner did in order to finally have that truly special one and all the ones that washed out before him. I don't think that they have spent any less than those of us with bitches and whelping expenses. More people keep less than stellar bitches and hope to breed up. You don't do that with a stud dog. He has to be at the top from the very beginning and I think that their owners have a right to charge anything they want. We bitch owners have the right to either use them or not.

Rather than air your beefs on a public forum about how other people choose their studs and what they choose to pay to breed for that dog, go back to you own sad little world and find dogs that meet all your criteria and use those. What business is it of yours how others breed or who they breed to or how much they pay for a stud service? We all do what works best for us. If I like a dog and his stud fee is $3000, I'll breed to him and what business is it of yours?

Sounds like you are just mad because someone's stud is being used that you don't approve of. Guess what? They don't need your approval!

I think I know who your talking about and I had a bad experience trying to deal with this breeders staff/office people in the past. Like you, I decided against using any studs from this breeder but reconsidered when my bitch came in early and I didn't have a stud lined up. The last minute service I received was top notch and the semen was the best that was ever sent to me. I've had 2 bad experiences with stud dog owners that didn't know how to collect and properly extend semen. In the end this breeder was very professional and worth the extra $ to finally get some good semen and not miss another breeding. She was timely with communication, shipping and registration, no complaints at all. I think her staff needs straightening out because they are the ones that gave me a bad impression of her kennels.

It's too bad there isn't a place to rate stud dog services based on specific criteria (not based on whether or not your bitch took). You can have the best stud dog in the world but if the breeder isn't capable of getting you good semen your wasting your time and money. My guess is there's a lot of them out there that don't know what their doing and they're charging just as much.

You raise a good point here. I don't like commercial breeders more than the next door guy, BUT I have to say that I've also had very, very bad experience with the not so commercial breeders. I have received dead semen more than I can tolerate, and not even a sorry from the breeders who took the service fee and had nothing to lose. I lost the service fee, The Progesterone tests, the shipping costs and 10 months until the next heat. When I breed to the very busy Stud owners, I have an excellent service and The bitches all delivered nice puppies which are doing awesome in the ring.
I think there are still many nice boys for $1000, just don't go after the popular guy of the month, go after good producers with solid bloodlines that produce healthy offspring.

No one asked for yours or anyone else's approval I can't believe you take offense to the stud-dog fees out there in today's times. If"keep moving, nothing to see here folks" breeders want to discuss it why would you care unless you're 1 of the stud-dog owners that charges $1800 or the $3000 only you brought up.

There's nothing wrong with this discussion. If you don't like it then take your own advice. The OP asked a few questions and was answered. I can't imagine what is wrong with that.

What's wrong with it? Just sounds like someone who is bashing others because they don't agree with how they conduct their business. Why do we even care? I really don't, just calling a spade a spade here. OP should just mind their own business.

As to how much I charge, I don't. Don't even have a horse in the race. The OP was just ranting and whining because she thought someone was charging too much for a stud fee on a dog that wasn't finished. Don't like it? Fine, don't pay it. Move along and find someone who will charge what you want and don't judge others who pay what they want to pay.

Wouldn't be surprised if Geez-Whiz was the OP. Want some cheese to go with your whine?

There is a lot more work standing a dog at stud than you would think.

The bitch owner makes 8 to 10 times the money a stud owner gets for there work when they sell the litter.

A stud with a sought after pedigree does a lot to make a litter saleable.Many sell there puppies on the accomplishments of the stud dog or his pedigree.

I don't think you can compare the work, time or cost involved with breeding and raising a litter vs stud dog services. Big difference! More than 8-10 x's the work and rarely 8-10 x's the money! Don't forget misses either. None of my pet people have sought out puppies based on stud dog accomplishments or pedigree.