" another breeder

Dec 23, 2013 - 3:16AM

It's no longer about breeding to the standard but breeding to win. "

I think it was always like that, it hasn't changed unless it's someone only breeding for money for their household or to pay to show their dogs. Even over the pond in England where some health problems were ignored for many years, you don't think certain kennels only bred to win culling those that didn't make the grade?

This is not something new,it's a different look. Coat and fat hides some conformation defects too.

I see a solid but more moderate dog being put up under foreign judges. Dogs with proper coat, but shorter and straighter than what a lot of people are producing in this country. Dogs whose chests do not fall far below the elbow and have decent reach of neck. I think people who are breeding the more massive style of Labrador with the overly deep chests and huge heads do not like this because their dogs are not as competitive under these judges. There are plenty of judges who will put up overdone, so why not have some judges who appreciate the moderate working dog this is supposed to be? There should be nothing wrong with admiring a moderate dog with proper length of leg and a short tight hard coat and classic head, and I think it is a breath of fresh air (and rare) that people will still put them up at specialties since under no standard is the Labrador a heavily built dog. It is also nice to see that people expect this breed to be fit (there really is no excuse to show these dogs fat or out of shape - while they may carry more weight for insulation while hunting in late fall or winter, most of these big specialties are in the Spring and Summer and there is no legitimate reason at all to keep a dog heavy for show). I see a lot of very young dogs and puppies being put up too, which might be an indication that these dogs more adequately meet the breed standard at their proportions than do their older counterparts that have become quite overdone.

Everyone wants what they have in their kennel to be what is winning, but the point of going to shows is to get an objective opinion from breed specialists, and if all you are looking for is confirmation that you are right and some bragging rights, this is probably not the right sport for you. There is room for more than one interpretation of the breed standard and an appreciation for more than one particular style - if everyone liked a huge hairy dog, they would all own Newfoundlands.

no foreign judges are definitely NOT a reality check. Breeders and Handlers go overseas all the time and socialize with these judges and when they come over to judge (and we know who went overseas to visit with them) it's fairly easy to predict who will be in the top ribbons. We predict this stuff all the time and are usually right. and you can continue to deny this but it happens all the time, you are just not paying enough attention or you just don't know who visited who overseas. and no, there's nothing IN it for the judge except to put up someone they know, like and had a nice visit with.

I've been showing labs for about 20 years now. I realize that is a short time compared to many but in a lot of ways, things haven't changed much. There have always been breeders who prefer a more moderate dog and those who prefer more substance and coat. Some have to have good movement and some don't care about movement at all. We have a breed standard, or several, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I've been to specialties where judges who prefer different "types" were hired in order to draw more entries. I've seen politics with breeder judges and all breed judges and with foreign and American judges. I've seen breeder judges and all breed judges put up dogs that, in my opinion, were pets. I've seen breeder judges put up dogs that look nothing like their own dogs. It's subjective. I once asked a breeder judge about a dog I was considering using at stud. She told me, "He's absolutely correct but he's not my type". Kudos for being honest!

Articles by long time breeders (American and English)in the Labrador Quarterly address some of the changes in American labs. We used to have show dogs and field dogs. Now it seems we have specialty dogs, all breed dogs and field dogs. It's no wonder that the judges aren't consistent. How can we expect them to be if we, as lab breeders, can't agree on what we want? But don't most of us show our dogs to judges who like the type we have anyway?

I agree with Jean Louis, that a labrador should be a labrador world wide. I show at dog shows to have my dog "judged" as well as to have my dogs "seen". So no, I don't always pick the judge particularly at specialty shows. I pick them at All Breed shows.
It was a highlight for me to have my dogs place under both British and American judges at shows. It shows that type is type and face/handler does not matter to most specialty judges. It is also a highlight to have both foreign and domestic judges pick them from the bred by class.

If I truly believed that judges looked up the leash all of the time, I wouldn't waste my time, effort or dollars on this "sport".

d

One only needs to look at the publications of Mary Roslin-Williams to understand the evolution of the Labrador. The photos of Labs from the early 1900's look far different from the the dogs she bred. The "Show" Lab of today looks very different to the "Field" champ today.

Who is to blame ? or is there a need to blame, as both dogs serve a purpose and are loved. Mary Rolin-Williams promoted the "Duel Purpose Labrador" . How many breeders today are trying to produce a CH in the Ring and the Field? Do you blame the judges or the breeders for the split in the bred? Do you show to win ? Or do you show because you want to do the best you can at producing the best dog for field and structure? Do you enter your dogs in as many hunting trials as you do show events? Do you take your Labrador hunting during the season?

While it is possible to try to breed the perfect dog, no one has yet. Some have come close only to find they introduced a genetic defect passed on to thousands of their get. If you strive for excellence in a sporting breed you will fail more often then you succeed in making a Duel Champion.

Then you have evolution. Better nutrition and less space for hunting has passed on genetics that have changed bone structure. You tell me if you can ever go back in time and bring back Mary Roslin-Williams idea of what a Labrador should be.Is the Labrador you are producing capible of a days hunt and then being the perfect family dog? Do "Show" judges even look to see if the Lab they are putting up is in "Working" condition?

I was very surprised to see a recent Master Hunter title won by a "Show" Champion get little response in that thread, vs some threads for TVD issues. Only 62 Labradors have ever done it. Did you go and watch the video ? He's a beautiful Lab that can work fast and shows his athletic ability. It is possible to strive for excellence in the ring and field.

Labradors are great even if they are not perfect. I am sure most breeders do the best they can with the genetics available. Sadly some dogs that should have been bred never were or were sterile. Sadly some beautiful specimens passed on terrible genetic disorders. Breeding is not for the faint of heart.

Happy New Year Labrador Lovers from the Americas to the rest of the world. They are all perfect to those who love them.