MY daughter's attendance has been very poor over the last year and is now getting worse. she complains of being unable to get out of bed and feels exhausted all the time. I have daily conversations with school who tell me that her future will be bleak if she does not attend school regularly. As if they need to tell me!!!! She will be sitting GCSE's next summer and is in Year 11. We have done CAHMS but daughter only went twice then refused to go. very angry with me for asking doctors help. now i have pushed again and we are visiting paediatrician next week to discuss her lack of energy, tummy pains headaches etc. I am at my wits end. She can barely drag herself out of bed unless there's something going on that she wants to do then she makes a supreme effort and gets up. Since going back to school in september she has averaged 1and a half days a week. I dont know if she is ill (Chronic Fatigue) or has an anxiety problem (school refuser). She is not being bullied. she has lots of friends but has an bad attitude at home. I have tried so hard to help her but she just doesnt want help. any advice???

Penny,

I am no doctor, so am unable to help on the possibility that your daughter might be suffering from Chronic Fatigue, but she seems to have the symptoms of a school refuser, as described by others on this site, and when compared to my own daughter's behaviour.

I don't think there is any 'good' time to experience this problem, but at your daughter's stage it seems particularly hard. This will be tough for you both. Refusing help seems to be par for the course. This, of course, increases our (parents') sense of frustration, which is often directed back at the child, thus only making matters worse for us both.

My wife and I had never had an arguement til this blew up in our faces. And certainly we had never been spoken to my any of our children as our daughter spoke to us. However, at that stage we were attempting to drive forward on finding solutions, whilst she wanted to be in control. Some how, eventually, we found a compromise that seems to be working, and with the help of a very understanding school (we have had to pay for boarding - there goes my pension)we are making progress.

But when I tell you it has been 4 years, you will not be feeling happy about your daughter's prospects.

Most children whose situations have been raised on this site, or in private correspondence, want to be like everyone else - being different is awful! She needs to be able to mix socially, if only to maintain normal social skills, and will make getting back into education easier if she already is friendly with people at school. (So, going to a boarding school was not good in that respect for us!)

One final point I want to make at this stage is on the question of the assistance you are getting. We have found it very hard to get the 'experts' together so that they can develop a co-ordinated plan. I think this is because thay have no real answers! But I still feel we might have been able to move forward more quickly if this had happened.

Penny, I fear this response is a rather gloomy one. Sorry. It has been a long haul for us, but we do seem to be comming out at the other end.

Please do keep in touch.

Yours, Simon.

Simon, Thankyou so much for your reply. It is so helpful to speak to someone who actually understands the situation.
I think in my heart of hearts I know she hasnt got CFS and is a school refuser. In a warped sort of way a diagnosis of CFS would probably meet with more understanding from the schools point of view. How awful to wish for a 'label' for your own child, but, as you can tell I am desperate for help. My relationship with my daughter has improved slightly as I now don't get into the fight everyday. I wake her up 2-3 times during the morning before I leave for work. If she does not get up then I leave her train fare to get herself into school. I cannot do flexitime at work so I have to leave at a set time. (rather ironically I am a teacher, but at primary level, so I cant home school her, and cant afford to stay at home)She is very resistant to get the train so often stays in bed all day to avoid the walk to the station at both ends of the journey. The last bit of your post that said you were coming out of the other end was such a comfort that although this may well be a very long journey, there is some hope, and I thank you for that.
I do hope that things continue on a positive note for you and your daughter and I would like to keep in touch. It is helpful to hear about others experiences and any progress that is made.

Penny

Penny, my heart goes out to you........your daughter's story sounds so much like my own, although, like Simon, we are much further down the line with things. Like you, my daughter is in year 11 and the added pressure of looming gcse's can really intensify the problem.

Like your daughter, desite having a school related anxiety problem, my daughter has a thriving social life and becomes another person when the issue of school is not in the picture. This can be hard to deal with as a parent because of the whole "well, if you can get dressed up to go out, you can **** well go to school" logic that muddies the picture, but I agree with Simon, the social life is so important to maintain a sense of community and normality when a child in this situation so desparately wants to be the same as everyone else.

Its very tricky for parents to navigate their way through the many aspects of school refusal and its impact on relationships and family life.
Finding support seems at times impossible. Like your daughter, mine tried CAMHS and refused to go..we have struggled through various professionals, all to no avail. Like Simon, we have eventually found a school, in our case a hugely expensive private college in London which my daughter has, miraculously, been more or less attending since September. It hasn't been straightforward and she's taking a vastly reduced - 4 - gcses in one year which is so sad for a bright girl who is desparate to find/prove her worth. The staff there are very used to taking on children with chequered school histories and as my daughter says of the head of GCSE - "she really gets me". So we have our fingers crossed and are hoping that she will get throught this year. What has really worked so far is that the school have cleverly given her a sense of autonomy, carefully guided by them, which makes her feel more in control (in a good way) of getting back into school.

That said, it is the first day after half term and she has not gone in this morning, having lain awake all night worrying about facing her teachers because she hasn't done the work required over half term. She tried for three days to get to grips with it and ended up under the duvet each time, hiding. It's so hard for parents not in this situation to understand the difficulties of managing the inevitable frustration this creates in one, as well as coping with all the authoritive parenting voices which we carry around. For my part, I think that as well as seeking help for one's child, it is so helpful if you can find a sympathetic therapist or counsellor to help you manage the situation, but that is not easy to do.

Don't lose heart.....there is a way through this, but it is a steep learning curve for everyone involved and there are no clear solutions. Did you read the post in the other topic about CBT - maybe that would be a start.
I have given up trying to get my daughter to see a therapist, and am hoping a pragmatic approach with the support of the school will help her make progress.

But, at the same time, having been through the whole gamut of emotions etc., as Simon describes, I am seeing a therapist and have found the support invaluable, and helpful in showing my daughter that talking can help. One of the pluses - if there are any! - of this situation, is that my daughter and I communicate very openly about everything and I feel that she is gradually, very gradually, learning to take responsibility for her feelings, schooling and life. Bizarrely the whole experience (I shoul add she had an anxiety related breakdown 2 years ago) has made her, in some ways, very self aware and mature.

Lots of dichotomies there and I hope all that was useful. I suppose what I am trying to say is don't despair...there is a way throgh this, but one has to throw out all conventional ideas of how one's child is 'supposed' to behave, to try and distinguish between what is normal teenage rebelliousnes and what is their own, personal stuff. It's not easy. It's a long haul.

I am interested by the way to see that you're a primary school teacher. My daughter's anxieties are totally rooted in being a summer birthday,
dyslexic and her early years fear and aniexties. Listening to a phone in the other day debating the pressures of sats etc on small children I really felt that the powers that be are still not looking at the long term effects.
My daughter is certainly symptomatic of this and it s having a massive effect now, in her teens.

I've rambled on, I hope not uselessly. This forum is a lifeline and I applaud Simon for starting it.....I hope it helps.




Best wishes

Caroline

Hi, have read new messages on site, I have been writing about my son's journey and have had lots of positive feedback from Simon. I have had a few really bad months where I hit rock bottom, but hopefully now I am on my way back up. I was taking my son to school every morning to try and get him in, to no avail, so our day started on a negative approach and just got worse, my husband and I made the decision to stop doing that and start concentrating on the positive aspects. One of the hardest things we are trying to accept is that we may never get our son back to school full time, he now goes to school after all pupils have left, three days a week for a total of four hours, and is having one to one tuition in english and computing, his teachers are so impressed by him and he is acheiving credit marks in both subjects, we are delighted with his progress, but also sad because he has the ability to do well in all his subjects. I sometimes struggle to get him into school at these times, but persever. I have been in touch with the education board to try and introduce more subjects but of course it comes down to finance, We were told if he was a 'yob' then he would get all the assistance he needs, so this has made me more determind to fight for the education he deserves. During the day he continues to do school work at home, when its available. He is also seeing school councillor and phsycologist once a week. This is obviously not the future we planned for our son, but its the best we can hope for at the moment, but we will carry on with our battle. My son still has days when he is really down and he feels he is letting us down, but they are getting less, we are seeing more of our happy boy and that is a huge acheivement.

Thanks again to Simon for this web site

Hi - couldn't agree more, Dorothy - the hardest thing for parents is the acceptance that things for one's child are not going to be straight forward educationally, and that they are likely to underacheive within the parameters of the school/exam system. We went through this last summer and it was really tough. However, accepting this, and trying to remove the every day negativity was the first step in moving forward.
Your son actually sounds like he is doing really well and I congratulate him and you. After the beginning of this weeks set back my daughter is back in college, but has a really long way to go before she starts actually doing her schoolwork in a consistent way.....that is the next anxious hurdle for her to overcome.

I hope your son continues to do well and that you are bearing up.

Best wishes

Caroline

Caroline, thankyou for your reply. I am sorry that your some of your daughters anxieties have stemed from the SAT's. I could go off on a tangent about that issue but will refrain!
My daughter had very minor worries at primary school but her worries over Maths was exacerbated by a teacher who made her feel useless and stupid and has had a long lasting effect where that subject is concerned.
when my daughter reached 13 things generally started to fall apart. I have constantly sought advice and guidance from both school professionals and medical professionals and here we are now at rock bottom.
She has now been diagnosed with severe depression. The paediatrician has said she is to have no conflict, upset, pressure at home or school and has referred her to a psyciatrist. I feel we are going full circle. I have a meeting with her school tommorow regarding her virtual non attendance.

Penny

Hi Penny
Just found this website and saw your post. Our daughter WAS diagnosed with CFS 4 years ago (at worst point, couldn't walk 20 yards without needing a rest), this gradually got better but somewhere along the line she developed anxiety and became a school refuser. Where CFS finished and anxiety started I'm not sure, but we have been through the same things as many parents, CBT, Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Childrens Mental Health Services etc.

Not sure what's been happening for you since your last post in November, but looking back on our experience we found that getting a diagnosis felt helpful at the time (first for CFS and then for Anxiety), but actually didn't do us any favours.

Her school were very keen to get an official diagnosis but this meant that they classified her as 'authorised absence' and didn't involve the local Attendance Officer. You don't say, but I wonder if you have got an Attendance Officer involved or are you just dealing with School. From our experience the Attendance Officer has been really helpful, and makes things happen particularly with the school.

Hope this helps, and hope your are making progress.

Keith

Thank you, Keith.

That tip about the Attendance Officer is very helpful. Avoiding officaldom is something many of us strive to do, but sometimes it can be helpful. It is too late for us, but I like the idea.

Keith, thank you for your reply
You are quite right. Since my daughter has been diagnosed with depression the school are quite happy to leave it at that. I have not had any grief from school and they are happy to accept that she comes in for a day and then not for 2-3 weeks. She is seeing a paediatrician for possible CFS but he feels that her fatigue is caused by her depression which is being treated with meds.
She managed to get in to school for 3 afternoons, 2 weeks running but as it stands at the moment she has only made 1 day in the past 2 weeks.
They are not going to enter her into any exams and have said she can re-sit year 11 next year. To be honest I would rather she left but she says she wants to try next year again. I'm not sure I can cope with another year of stress! Mind you, at least they know her at school. If she went to college or work we are likely to have the same thing continuing. Sorry if i sound as if I have the wrong attitude at the moment but I feel particularly worn down with it all just now

Hi, Penny

We tried college, but the sight of all those hoodies walking into the building on the first day was just too much, and my daughter never went back!

Telling you this is not to put you off, but to suggest that there are some taster days, perhaps to talk to lecturers, or visit the library, in the preceding term to get your child used to the environment.

Meanwhile, we are having trouble getting our daughter back to school for a prelim.

But we have to keep going, don't we?

Simon

Hi Penny
Sounds like your having a tough time at the moment. Not sure we've got any magic answers, but I would suggest you make sure someone from the local education team who is from outside your school is involved.

I saw your posting on the other string about GCSE's being delayed a year etc and that is good, but there will probably be other things they could put in place for your daughter which might not be volunteered by the school, particularly if it will come out of their budget.

Apologies if you have already looked into any of these but here are some examples. They could provide e-learning support with a dedicated tutor, or Year 11's can do vocational courses at Colleges for say one day a week, whilst still being registered with the school. Some colleges specialise in supporting young people who are experiencing problems, but your school may be unaware of this and are unlikley to be keen about releasing any of their budget to make it happen.

That's why I think it can be valuable to have someone like the Attendance Officer involved. We know of several examples where School Refusers (who are registered and funded by a School they no longer attend) are going to College, because the classes are smaller, the Tutors are better equipped to deal with their needs and the courses are more appropriate. This has only happened because of the involvement from the local education team.

Please don't think I'm running down schools, there are some fantastic teachers about, but they are under a lot of pressure to get certain results in a quite constrained environment, where they don't always have the resources or time to deal adequately with School Refusers.

Keith

Hi there I just wanted to join in. I am a Practice Nurse/Trainee Nurse Practitioner. Our Daughter is 11yrs 9 months old and has had school refusal since the last few weeks of year 6 when she started to have problems with her peers. she was looking forward to her new High School just rebuilt at a cost of £20 million. It is also a specialist Maths College her favourite subject. She is very intelligent a straight A student. Problems started on about the third day at High School I have had to prise her out of the car with members of staff watching by and her crying and saying "Mum, please Mum please". Every morning has been so stressful. she has quite bad Asthma as wel which does not help have been through CAMS she was refused a Psychiatrist or a registered Psychologist, assessed over 4 sessions by a social worker who can do CBT, she was offered CBT but said she would rather just speak to her Mum and denied being anxious at school she just says she feels "ill" or "tired" I know she has anxiety as I took her to a Maths Challenge at our local uni she had been put forward for. She had to go straight out she felt sick had a headache and her legs hurt she would not stay in the room. She does not recognise it as anxiety and gets very annoyed with us when we suggest it is! We are at the stage now of having multi disciplinary meetings at school with the SEN co-ordinator, head of year, school nurse and attendance officer. Because of the tiredness and her recent hospital admission with asthma they have said she can start after morning break which is better but we still have to physically take her in to school together in the car it is less than half a mile away! I work close by but work most days or am at uni which leaves my husband to do it on his own he has to prise her out of the car sometimes and feels upset right into the evening because she is so distressed. This has been going on for 6 months now. I would not be able to check her bloods for anaemia as she is needle phobic. Her conjunctiva are pink and she eats fairly well. Although she has an extrovert personality and has a very pleasant side she can be quite self centred and cant seem to understand why her not going to school causes us problems!! School want her referred back to CAMS by her GP, I would like them to provide a Psychologist because they do have them. We adopt the approach that if she doesn't get ready and go to school without a fuss she gets her TV lead taken away. This does work but she says she hates us!! What does anyone think? She knows a lot of people at this school but does not feel well liked, she says everyone is horrible to her, she has one friend and says even she is not nice to her all the time, she most people hate herand try and exclude her or blame her for things eg when group work goes wrong.
Mandy
PS I have a son 15, never late -100% attendance, and a step daughter 13 who attends a different school and attends well and on time there, also little Jenny age 3 who cannot wait to Start in September.

Hi Mandy
Your daughter's story sounds very familiar to our own daughter. Not sure if there are any right answers, but I can share some thoughts and experiences from our last 4 years.

We also found it very hard when our daughter said she hated us, but we knew she didn't hate us, just hated what we were trying to make her do. In the same way that we hated the fact she wouldn't just stroll into school like our other daughters.

I've read differing 'professional' opinions about how to deal with school phobia. Some suggest that the best place to deal with it is in school, and no matter what it takes you should get the child into school every day, for the whole day, so they can experience for themselves that it's not such an awful place. We've also been told the opposite and that the childs underlying anxieties should be addressed first, and there is little value in attending school if you feel so anxious about the experience when you are there.

I'm not suggesting either of the above as 'correct' but we found that as our daughter became bigger and stronger, we couldn't physically prise her anywhere and so we had to address her underlying anxiety. We also found inducements and sanctions to be less and less effective as her anxiety grew.

I think your right to get a GP referal to work with a Psychologist or a specialist counsellor. We found the best ones tend to focus on working with the whole family, not just the child. Also lots of people, i.e. school teachers, head of year, GP, school welfare etc 'offered' to help with counselling and support and we had to make a judgement call about who we (and our daughter) trusted to provide that support. We even found our daughter opened up far more to certain family friends in an informal setting than she did to professional counsellors. We concluded that finding the right person to talk to was half the battle.

From what you've written, relationships with peers seems to be a big thing for your daughter, does she have positive peer relationships outside the school environment?

The physical symptoms you mention sound like the classic complaints we have from our youngster when she is anxious but we also went down the route of eliminating all other possibilities.

I'm sure you know this but the GP can perscribe a numbing gel to apply to the arm before going for a blood test, doesn't completely get over the needle phobia (our daughter manged to throw up over the nurse at her last blood test) but it does provide some relief both physical and psychological.

Hope some of the above is useful, and you manage to find the support you, your daughter and all your family need.

Keith

Hi Everyone,

My daughter is in Year 11 and has been a school refuser since Year 7. (You'll probably see our story dotted about the 'threads' of this site). I was never sure if my daughter was ill or not or even 'self harming' at times, in order not to have to go to school. I've always found that no amount of 'taking away treats' etc has been of any use, as my daughter would far rather 'go without', than have to go to school.

I've tried allsorts, tough love, shouting, being firm, being kind, nothing has helped. My daughter's counsellor said I should take all the pressure off her and just take 'small steps' ........ and after three years this has finally helped, although my daughter has never actually returned to school, but she can at least do a little more studying than she has done previously. She now has 5 hours tutoring a week in order to take her GCSE's in May of this year. She is so bright and I've found it really hard to accept that she will never get the grades she would have done, had she not suffered with this wretched 'problem'. I also realise now that we are almost coming out the other side, that MY anxieties about her lack of school attendance, have not helped my daughter at all!!

Above all this, my worst experience has been the confrontation at the 6 weekly review meetings with ISS/TASCC/School etc and the disbelief of the 'professionals' that my daughter has a problem at all .... they think I should just make her go to school! Oh if only it were that easy!

As you've probably gathered we are hoping my daughter will go to college in September and make up for the 'life' she has lost so far regarding social issues. I'm hoping she will go out and enjoy her life and be a 'real' teenager instead of sitting in with mum all the time.

Do any of you who have Year 11 children, have a Connexions in your area? We have been in contact with them and if my daughter is accepted, they will help her visit the new college a few times before she starts, so that she can get used to it and it wont all be too NEW for her on day one. Although they are another professional, they have been really helpful so far.

It has been a long lonely road and a very hard slog but I can actually see the light at the end of the tunnel now.

Hang in there everyone .... it does get better.

Thank goodness for this site!

Sue x

My daughter is year 11 and as you will have read in my posts is not sitting any exams this year.
She has been making slow but steady progress since taking medication in the form of anti depressants which have really helped her low mood.
She has also started taking melatonin which has helped regulate her sleep patterns and now finds she is sleeping better at night and able to get up during the day more. She has asked to go back to school and has managed to go every day for this past week. She has come home exhausted and has gone to bed by 9pm. I can't tell you the relief that I have felt this week. Whether this will continue only time will tell. But oh how lovely to have a week of normality.

Hello Everyone
Thank you all for sharing your experiences! Our P had a really good couple of days this week she is 11 (yr 7)having been going in to school after morning break as arranged, then the review meeting came up at 0930 last Friday.
I decided would be best if just I went to this meeting rather than her and my husband as well because she tells me what is going on while my husband could keep the routine going getting her to school, as she had become very positive about some aspects of school life. They were all really nice to me and the next review is now after Easter, she can miss PE and do paperwork relating to this lesson while it is on and go in after morning break for the meantime.
I got home at 10.30 ready to drive her up she got all ready for school.... and felt so sick that she could not go in at all that day!! The problem lesson before was just PE now it is Science as well, as the teacher brought out a set of lungs and started to make the class dissect them!! OMG!!Her first lesson after break on Monday is Science!!!....
I have decided I will take her in at lunchtime on that day rather than lose it all together and speak to the head of year. Our daughter has a little bit bit of OCD type behaviour only since her problems started-? to keep control? She is vegetarian and hates contact with anything to do with meat or fish!!and says she feels "grossed out"
Mandy

Sorry other questions yes I know about Emla cream she had it on in A and E a few weeks ago when she was admitted it burns her skin she hates it and she interacts well with other people out of school and sometimes in school she is very well liked by quite a few people!!

Hi Mandy,

Reading your story is like reading ours all over again. My daughter M. was exactly the same as yours. Its started with PE, which we overcame, then it became another lesson and another. I found myself running here and there trying to get her into school. I've lost a lot of time from work, due to sitting outside school while she went in for the odd lesson here and there. The school were great and we actually got M. back for all of Year 8. Unfortunately it started again in year 9 and now she's in Year 11 the school are absolutely fed up with me but that's because we didnt have any intervention by 'professionals' at an early stage to help her, so I had to constantly badger the school into helping us with part time timetables, teachers being made aware and quiet rooms etc.

M. also began to get a little OCD but I think that was her way of controlling things. She liked her little routines and liked to know exactly what was going to happen. I found it better not to battle with her as it would just stress her out even more.

I paid for a private counsellor but the Education Service in this area prefer you to go through 'their books' and see their child psychologists etc. Sadly as parents we are left to deal with the unknown and honestly not knowing where to turn for help. Thank goodness we now have this site to give us a little more info, and realise we are not the only ones going through it. There was a time I thought M. was the ONLY person EVER to have this 'problem', thats how the Education Service in this area made me feel. I wish this site had been around when M. was in Year 7.

Dont lose heart though Mandy, you will get there. I feel at last that we are coming out the other end, and you will too. Just remember your daughter's welfare and happiness are more important than anything right now. As M's counsellor told me "Education is freely available later in life from many sources, it doesnt have to be right here, right now". Dont be made to feel guilty by people who are not in your situation ... they have no idea what it's like!

Take care.

Sue x

Dear Sue, Thank you for thaT! I totally agree with what you said about the Education, about it doesn't have to be right here right now and in this way. I am lucky with this school, they are fab. The PE doesn't matter -and she liked science before the lungs came out on Friday!! She says any morning with maths on before break she will try really hard to get up for that. She feels funny about going in the science room again after Friday, I will be emailing the head of year tonight as P checks in with her at 1100 every day just to let her know I hope it will be OK as PE is twice a week and science is on the menu a lot more often!! After the sick episode on Friday she is a lot brighter and bought herself a new bag for SCHOOL at the weekend!! Every time we start getting on well she has a setback or we get a half term!! the OCD isn't too bad sounds bit like your daughter she didn't use to be like this though!!Hope you have a good week!x

I have never been on this site before however am experiencing many of the problems you talk about thanks for being so open about it all