We have the Education Welfare Officer coming to see us on Thursday morning this week (her first visit). As my son's at a private school there isn't the direct link between EWO and school. But the school still have to report the absence, and an EWO has agreed to see us.

If anybody has any hints and tips on what I should say/ask then let me know.

Of course my son had been sleeping fairly normally the last 2 weeks and then last night he stayed awake all night, so I don't know what the situation will be by Thursday morning.

Also, for anybody whose child was at a private school - what did you do about paying fees and handing in notice etc?

Sharon

Sharon, hi, I will make my response brief as my son was in state school. The key for us with the Attendance Improvement Officer (which I assume is the same thing) was to have the support of the Camhs team as they were able to establish with her that the causes for his non-attendance were medical not behavioural (and by medical he was mentally unfit for school) as this seems to affect how they deal with you.

When she came to visit my son refused to see her, and she was quite accepting of this. In the state system it seems that the relationship between your child's attendance and the school is key as they are funded for each child by the Local Education Authority, and therefore there may be a different angle if you are in private school, although I guess you are still legally obliged to provide education for your child.

When we were in the private system they absolutely insisted we paid for a whole term, but you may get some leeway if your child is unwell.

Sorry if this is all irrelevant,

Best of luck (my son woke at one am this morning and has not gone to bed yet, he seems to be operating on a 20 hour day)

Julietx

Hi Sharon

I agree with Juliet with regards to CAMHS - and i am unsure about the private sector. The EWO's job is to work with the family to assist with attendance issues, and just be honest. Have you kept a diary of everything ? this will certainly help as you can show what it's been like, whaat you have done on a daily basis etc.

Hope your EWO is as helpful as ours was.

Sarah xx

Thanks Juliet. I think I am in a state of confusion at the moment because I don't feel like I have a definitive answer on what is going on with my son and things have felt a bit slow with Camhs so far (partly because psychologist has had a long holiday). I think the school are probably marking the absence as unauthorised at the moment rather than medical. But I will definitely discuss the Camhs involvement with the EWO and suggest she also talks with them. Hopefully Camhs are doing an Aspergers assessment with my son next Monday, so things might start to become a little clearer then.

My head just seems to be all over the place at the moment trying to make any sense of it all.

My son fell asleep at 1pm this afternoon after being awake for 25 hours! It's good to know he's not the only one with unusual sleep habits. How do you cope with it - do you just leave him to it now and not worry or do you keep trying to get him back to normal times? At the moment I am still putting a lot of effort into trying to get him to sleep normally (or at least not be up all night) - but if I am sure he's going to be up all night then I have to give up and try to sleep myself.

Sharon x

Thanks Sarah. I haven't really got much of a diary at the moment, but I have been noting down his sleep times and if I have any meetings with Cahms or headmaster. Since he has been refusing to go completely, he has just been staying awake all night so that there is no hope of me being able to get him up for school - so I haven't been able to do much at all towards getting him to school. For the first half term since January (when he started at this school) I was managing to get him to school most days at some time - but I hadn't been writing in the diary then as I hadn't realised I was heading towards complete refusal again! Although what I was doing at that time to get him in to school is still quite clear in my head.

Will see how it goes on Thursday.I'm hoping she will be helpful - it was me that contacted her rather than the other way round.

Sharon x

Sharon,

I am glad that I have been a bit of help here, and I totally get the confusion feeling. I have never felt so muddle headed or drained of energy as I have since this School Refusal thing kicked off as a full-time thing. I think that part of the foggy brained feeling is to do with it being a sort of "computer says no" thing on the part of your brain. This is so out of most peoples' experience that you feel (well at least I did and do) confounded by it. This forum really helps, kindly and informative, and full of parents who can tell you that what you are going through, though not common as far as general population is concerned, has very similar patterns for those children that are School Refusers. (I am very new here btw and there are people who know much, much more than me).

Re: Sleeping

Do you know I just don't know? I have tried and tried to get him up and he tells me himself that he doesnt like being so out of sync with the rest of the world, but what is odd is how it is not just a case of go to bed late get up late, it seems to have profound cycles over a three week period, and at the moment we are in a phase where he is only sleeping for four or five hours during a 24 hour period. I would be grateful too for other people's insights and experiences about this. I strongly feel this is not happening just because he doesn't have the routine of school, but totally prepared to accept that it might be.

Re: Attendance Officer

It seems to me (well in our case anyway) that what they need to establish is that every effort has been made to get your child to school, and that you are being looked after by the relevant people eg CAMHS. I also know how slow CAMHS can be, and this has to be explained to your Attendance Officer, perhaps give her the details of your CAMHS people. If your child is deemed medically unfit for school you are entitled to five hours a week home tuition but this is hinged on a structured plan to return your child to full-time education and that might not be appropriate at this stage.

Hope this is helpful

Juliet
xx

Hi Sharon

I wish you well with the meeting on Thursday. Sorry I have no direct insight but agree with the others that keeping a record/diary is important.

As far as the sleeping goes - I am still battling. ALl the research says that kids need at least 8-10 hours sleep. There is research that also says that teenagers don't always need as much sleep and their cycle changes. Perhaps our kids are reaching that teenage cycle earlier? - but I also think the technology has interfered.
My son is now addicted to the computer (MineCraft). I know that it is hard for me to express this to other people but I know you all understand when I say I do try my hardest to get him away - but sometimes I give in because I am tired of the battles. But research recently seems to indicate that the screen from a computer can interfere with your sleep patterns as it tricks the brain into thinking it is still daylight hours if you use it at night time before bed (and any other technology with a screen).

Whilst I don't think the technology caused my son's sleep problems (as it is a more recent thing) - I think it has made it a lot worse. I have tried various plans with 'on time' and 'off time' - the next plan is to remove the computer and modem - iPad etc and hide them after school (I used the computer during the day) and if he is not attending school - hide them for at least half the day. He will also not be allowed onto the computer for more than an hour at a time without a break - and then no screen technology after 8pm. He will complain because his friends on-line are over the other side of the world and so are on-line at night. This is part of the problem too.

This is stricter than I have tried before - and if he doesn't work with me on this - then I will remove the computer from the house completely and monitor his iPad (Unfortunately they have that for school). Having been forced to get broadband wireless in order to use his iPad within the house has meant that he wants to carry it with him everywhere - even to the toilet. It is a real hassle and it means I will probably have to disconnect and hide the modem as well.

What do your kids do when they are not going to sleep? Are they playing on screen technology? Interacting on-line? We have to break the cycle for them - but it is the toughest thing I have had to do -apart from dragging my son to school in the early days!! Because they are not able to attend school so often - they are probably clinging to their on-line world. But it is a vicious circle and the more time they spend on-line, the more they opt out of the real world and it gets more difficult for them to face.

There was a program on our radio here the other day about computer game addiction and one parent said that they were only able to break the cycle by taking their son away for weekends so that he was away from technology for a length of time that allowed him to reconnect with the family and move through the real world. Seems we are not the only parents going through this - but with SR - our kids are vulnerable to the way technology makes them feel better.

Sorry - raved on a bit there!! And I do fully understand the confused feeling - I go from more or less coping these days to being very fuzzy and muddled in the head, especially when there is no rational argument to be had.
Take care - good luck with the sleep and the meeting.
Linda

Linda, you just described my life to a "t".

My son was Minecraft addicted now it is World of Warcraft. Exactly the same experience as you, have drawn pretty much same conclusions. I believe I have colluded in his use of tech, for a quiet life. And the virtually viscious circle that it is the more he retreats from life the more he goes online the more he goes online the more he retreats from life. We have also become aware that he interacts with folks online (again often abroad) and whilst we are relieved that he is seeking some form of human contact, we also worry that it further entrenches him in that world.

I think the next step for me is to make his use of computer conditional on some changes, more regular washing and a beginning of some family time. I am sure too that it affects his sleep too.

Unpicking what is innate behaviour and what is learnt behaviour is so hard, clearly lots of kids use computers and not all are SR's. Perhaps it is the combination of that particular personality type and the screen?

Good luck Linda with your plan, it is really hard and because the reactions can be so extreme it is a challenge to remain steadfast, for me I think it will be baby steps for me and I will keep you posted.

PS good luck for tomorrow Sharon! Let us know how you get on. xxx

jx

Good luck tomorrow Sharon, hope it goes well and you get the support you need.

With regards to online computer / xbox games we too went through that stage as my son felt he could escape his life and he could lead a "pretend life" as lots of the people online didn't know him.

Sarah x

Hi Sharon,

I know you haven't posted for a while but I wondered how your meeting with the EWO went. My son has been in the private sector and I wondered if the EWO had any helpful suggestions? Will they refer your child for tutoring even though you are not in the state system?

I am thinking about contacting mine but fear they will tell me stuff I don't want to hear!

Sophy

Hi everyone,

Haven't posted for a while - think my head's just been feeling too muddled!

On the morning the EWO came, my son barricaded himself in his bedroom so I could only open the door an inch!

The EWO talked to me & my husband - I explained the situation and she seemed to understand that we were doing what we could and were not wanting our son to be out of school etc. She went through the law and what can possibly happen. She said that if a CAHMS consultant can write a letter to say my son cannot currently cope with going into the school environment, then they would provide some home tutoring. She said there has to be a medical reason rather than a behavioural reason - I get the feeling that she thinks it is behavioural with my son because he puts his sleeping pattern out to avoid school, quite why any 'normal' person would do this I don't know! And she said the other children that get home tutoring are those that have been excluded - seems unfair that it is so easy for them to get home tutoring!

The EWO sat at the top of the stairs and talked to my son through his door. Basically explained the law to him and explained what could happen if he didn't go to school. Afterwards when I managed to get my son's door open he seemed very angry and was saying that we need to find a new school because he can't go back to the other one.

So, Sophy, I'm not sure how helpful it is for you to involve the EWO, but if CAHMS can write a letter for you then it may give you access to some home tutoring. Is your son's name still on the roll for the private school? For me, it has been useful to involve the EWO just so that I am exploring every channel.

We also saw the CAMHS psychologist last week. I had a feeling in the morning that I wasn't going to get my son out to the appointment, so he kindly came to our house. My son finally came downstairs just after he arrived. He wanted to do the autism/Aspergers assessment - he didn't get all that far though as my son was mostly answering 'I don't know' to the questions! The psychologist is quite convinced that it is Aspergers, but it is proving tricky to diagnose! The psychologist's view is that he would be better off at a specialist school for Aspergers - but this involves getting a diagnosis and a statement, there are also not many appropriate schools around. And if it isn't Aspergers, then what? I am finding things very slow with CAMHS and I haven't been given a date for next appointment.

Anyway, psychologist said he would talk to EWO - although this hasn't happened yet.

We spoke to the headmaster last week too and he said that we don't need to pay the fees at the moment but he will keep my son's name on the roll.

After sleeping slightly more normally in school holidays, my son is now back to a crazy sleep pattern again. So life is feeling quite difficult at the moment and it's hard to see the way forward!

Sharon

Hi sharon

thank you for replying - well at least you seem to have the support of cahms which is what it seems you need. I think Peter has given some very good advice on how to work the cahms system.

My son isn't registered at any school, he started at a new private school this sept but we just could not afford the fees if he wasn't attending. Since this Jan, he attended one lesson in the spring term and after that lesson, he told us he wasn't going back. Prior to that he was on a scholarship at a private school which he joined in Year 7. This is when the SR first started but we did get him back full time for two terms. This worked as he wanted to return to school so he had the motivation to overcome the anxiety but this time, we knew it was not going to happen. So we are without a school. He has been looking at a tutorial college that has a GCSE unit and he managed the interview with the head and was supposed to go in today for the day. Despite telling me over easter he was excited and it was going to be fine, he completely collapsed on Monday and told me he just couldn't do it. i've been paying for tutors for the last 3 months which has been a nightmare. Instead of ' is he going to school', its been 'is he going to get out of bed to see his tutor'! We thought this was the way to go as my son was insisting he will go to this college in September. His thought process was 'I can start again and won't be labelled' and silly me, I really believed him. We don't have cahms onboard either. When my son first started school refusing in Sept, I went to my GP who said you can go via cahms but there is a very very long waiting list (we are in London) and suggested we go privately as we have medical insurance. So, I have a private psych and therapist onboard but I have heard that it has to be cahms. We have also just moved so have changed GPs. I do have a diagnosis of emotional behavioural school refusal from an educational pshycologist as well. I think it really depends on where you live and whether you have a sympathetic EWO as to what kind of support you get.

So, I feel so bad as I just don't know what to do to help my boy. He gets so upset at the thought of home tutoring. And to be honest, we cannot afford the endless tutors for another two years as I have had to give up work so it is either me teaching him or we get the LEA to pay for tutoring. I just don't know whether I have the strength to take on the local authorities if they decide not to be supportive and prosecute. My other fear is as my son's anxieties are mainly school based and he does have a social life, plays football etc, are they going to believe him? It's only because I've stopped the dragging him to school and taking him off the meds (they made him put on weight) that he is now much happier and not self-harming.

Sorry for going on bit it is a relief to let it all out instead of pretending everything is fine.

sophyx

CAMHS - great for me, not so for M, but please please get an appointment and get the support you need ie a diagnosis so to avoid the law. EWO's you have to remember are used to truants, and unfortunately treat all kids the same - our first one threatened to get th police to force my son to school - great for his anxiety levels and my GP called and told her to back off !! We get home ed tutor and that was before CAMHS wrote a report which basically said my son needed to be taught in small groups away from main classes - school offered tutor support in the inclusion centre which my son did try 18 months ago with the assistance of the EWO taking him, staying with him and bringing him home 1 hour per day - after 3 days she said she just couldn't do it and see how anxious M was there - hey welcome to my world !! The school said that there was no way they would prosecute me but it is the EWO's decision not theirs. EWO said they needed CAMHS report to confirm - as above - then our psycologist left and we had a new one who had to give the report after only 1 meeting !! I remember the EWO calling me one day ( prior to her taking M to school ) and saying if they don't get the report to say he was unfit for school then they would start legal action - he had been refusing for 3 years at this stage, and infront of an office full of staff i basically shouted at her and said just go ahead and try it - you are all a bunch of *********** oooohhhh i know i shouldn't have but i was at the end of my teather i really was. Anyway rambling a little now but my private education psycologist has said that M could take legal action against the school for discrimination against a disability and negligance - not something we would ever do but would love to turn the tables !!

So yes in a nutshell it depends on your GP which CAMHS and EWO you have - just so glad my GP suffered SR and has written a paper on it that did help, and had the most supportive Parent Partnership support worker ever ( Staffordshire )

Bit of a mixed post really but you should get my drift xx

Hi Sophy

I think it is probably worth getting yourself on that camhs waiting list. Best bet is probably to put everything in writing and be brutally honest (mention the self harming) and go to your GP with that so that GP can attach it to a referral to camhs. The first time we went to GP, he said he would put a referral to camhs and then we got turned down by camhs - it was only when we wrote everything down and asked to be referred again that we got through. We also saw a psychiatrist privately 4 times before we finally got through the camhs waiting list.

In the meantime, maybe it is worth trying the EWO with info from the private psychologist. Can understand reluctance to go to EWO though - but I presume that is only way to get some home tutoring via LEA. I also don't know what the position is if you're not currently on a school roll - not that it should really make any difference and if it does appear to be a problem then maybe it's time to get your local MP involved. We thought we were going to have to pay fees for this term to stay on school roll, but luckily the headmaster said that he would just keep us on the roll for now.

If we get to the home tutoring stage then I will be having those 'is he going to get out of bed for tutor' moments too!

It's very easy to believe that they will try again and make a fresh start at a new school/college. I guess it's what we really want to believe. My son says he just needs a new school, but having started a new school for Yr 7 in Sept and stopped by Oct half term and then a new school in Jan that lasted till Feb half term I am just being really cautious now - although it does seem tempting to just try another school! For now, I am just waiting to se what psychologist says.

Sharon x

Sarah - good on you for shouting at the EWO! I don't know why they think threatening legal action is going to change everything - we're already doing everything we can and would much prefer our children to be in education!

Sharon x

Sharon - looking back i'm quite ashamed really - the whole office just went silent as i ranted on the phone they had never seen me like that before. I did apologise for being rude to her but made it very clear that i wasn't sorry for the context of the conversation !!

Oh well bet she's heard worse !!

Sarah xx

Thank you Sarah and Sharon for your replies and I hope you had a calm and peaceful week-end!

Sorry it has taken a while to respond but when it comes to my own son, I just feel so confused so have been mulling things over... I will go and find us a new GP, (recently moved house) and see what they say re contacting the EWO/Cahms. In the meantime, my son wants to go to this college but is 'scared' and this is a small breakthrough. Up until now, he has just made excuses as to why and he is fine, it is everything, everyone else etc...you know how it is. I was speaking to his/our therapist and she quite rightly said, it is up to him and I can't fix it for him. He has to find the motivation himself. It might be a case of after a couple of weeks of home tutoring, he will want to try to go to college again as he hates the tutoring so much. I did mention CBT again and she said although it didn't work with her, it might be worth looking at someone else. I think my son feels he has let her down as well as his family as they are close. So I was thinking about the guy that helped your son sarah. I know
you said he will talk to people via skype although my son said he'd prefer the phone!!

What do you think?

Sophy

PS not sure how to email you directly sarah to get the details...