Phew, at last somewhere to let it all out. Thanks for creating this space!

Our daughter has refused to go to school for three months, we have the CAMHS services involved and a lot of support from the school. What started as school anxiety turned out to be and underlying depression and has the added edge of social anxiety and now a full on school phobia. It started in the second year of secondary school, before then things were fine and she loved school.

Even with support and help we are struggling to hold it together. It is the not knowing, will she go in today, will she play up. She has made a few short visits, but when she refuses, what can you do. We've been told not to go down the bribery route and that she need to do this for herself. Not to punish and keep going on about the consequences.

I'd just like to say to all that keep an eye out for the underlying issues and make sure you get professional help as soon as possible. Something like depression cannot be overlooked. Bullying. Anxiety. These are all conditions that need professional help and it can be dangerous to be your own family therapist. It is also very hard to be objective when you are in the midst of the problem.

Also to wish everyone luck. It is a slow slow process and the biggest mistake you can make is to blame yourself in anyway. It might seem like they are doing it to hurt you sometimes, but that is the way that teenagers tick - go for the jugular one minute and needing help and support the next.

All we want is for her to be happy and get back into school for her own sake. I'm sure like many of you, we just want it to be normal again. Just one week of normality would be nice.

The reintroduction to school is going the be a long painful process for the whole family. The stress runs right through the family on a daily basis.

The therapist has told us not to show our anguish and upset, but some days it is just not that easy. It is destroying work, now causing financial issues and causing so much stress. Its hard to hide those emotions all the time.

OOOH Peter - your daughter is the same year as my son then ! You may have read that i have another son who was a refuser for 4.5 years and we thought we were just coming to the end of it as he leaves compulsory education next month then the little one starts !!

It is very hard to have a 2nd child go through it as he is so different from his brother, very very bright and a popular kid. He is now saying that he is not learning anything at school and is bored - is that the real reason ? I totally understand about not showing emotions, i used to sit and cry scream and shout alot, and it didn't work.

I am being calm ( on the outside ) even though i want to scream on the inside. I think it may be an attention thing - not sure. He knew how much it upset me when his brother was going through it all, and he has threatened not to go to school if he doesn't get his own way -so is he punishing me ?

I understand that as we speak he is on his x box - my mum is looking after him and i have said to just keep it calm whilst i'm at work and will finish early. If she stopped him going on it he would cause great upset for mum and i can't have that for her sake, she's already had a stoke.

He just won't talk to me at all just shrugs his shoulders - i will be calm when i get back and not engage in too much conversation i know that gets to him. Then i think say he really has a problem is that adding to it ?

I can't do right for wrong.

Anyway glad you have found us and keep posting.

Sarah xx

Thanks for taking the time to reply Sarah and I really feel for you. One is quite enough - hope you are looking after yourself and glad you have your mother to help. It is so important to show them that you have structure and stick to responsibilities. Can't just drop work as we need money to live. They need to grasp that, and are lead by example. Well that's the theory.

I think this phobia, a bit like depression can seem like attention seeking but as we know it is much more deep routed. Not going to school, in my opinion, is a little bit like self-harming. It also feels like they are actually trying to hurt you, in fact the therapist said they are at some moments, angry with the world, angry with you and as a teenager trying to come to terms with the new power they have over their destiny. Hence how important it is not to overreact - I'm learning that slowly but often think how my dad would have reacted.

But I confess to being exhausted with it, inside. Hide it best I can but this along with another heap of other problems has taken its toll. It sounds that like you, I pick my moments for conversation. Sometimes she wont open up at all. what I find really hard is that she is not seeing friends of her own age, so is almost clingy with us (when not telling us she hates us). It is a vicious circle. I'm considering making life at home a lot less interesting. TV/Internet etc. Restricting it even further, but I'm afraid she will lose all social interaction.

I'm sorry for anyone going through this. Some people are great, but some I'm sure feel it is bad parenting, just the look of disbelief.

Keep calm and carry on parenting

Peter - bad parent's dont help their children FACT !! so we are all good parents just finding life a little difficult at times. I never stopped my eldest son from internet x box etc as that was his only communication with the outside world but horses for courses what works with one may not for another. It's also lovely to see a father supporting ( haven't forgotten Simon !! ) as my boys father has no idea !!

I too have no option but to work, single mum running a business so i feel so torn.

Can you give me an indication where abouts you guys are ? Im Staffordshire

Sar x

Sarah / Peter

I too am currently experiencing this, I have an eleven year old son who has not attended since January, he has always had difficulties in school but in January he started to self harm in when i was trying to get him ready, bashing his head on the side of his bed, biting his hands and arms and even threatened to stab himself with a kitchen knife that he had grabbed from the drawer, from then on I have not pushed him to attend, it is far too upsetting.

I should consider myself lucky, we have an Educational Psychologist, parent support advisor, paediatrician, SENCO, Education Welfare Officer and Behaviour and Curriculum Inclusion (BACIN) team but we're still getting little or no help / advice, because they don't know what to do, and everyone is looking to someone else for answers,
We are due to have our first CAMHS meeting next week, I have waited over 3 months for it.

People really don't understand what it is like and the guilt that you feel as a parent, I feel like I am letting my son down on a daily basis.

Nicki - you are NOT letting your son down the system is. I am not surprised you haven't pushed it no one in your situation would.

I really hope you find CAMHS a help - i did but more for me than my son.

Stay in touch

Sarah xx

Hi Sarah,

Based in Surrey. I've always been close with my daughter so feel involved. I feel torn too, the kinda cruel to be kind thing on my mind when you don't even know how to be cruel. Nicki I hope it goes OK with CAMHS but do keep pushing, it take a while to get things off the ground and you do need to pin people down for dates an exactly what kind of support you are going to get. Nothing worse than just being left to deal with it and not knowing where to turn next. I'd also ask for a number you can call AND one key person to contact / coordinate the care plan.

The other pain is that not going to school means the sleep pattern goes out of coiter, so I'm shattered and ready for bed and she could stay up all night - no physical or mental stimulation. Getting more knackered with it day by day.

take care
Craig

I think one of the problems that we face is that from daone our children are expected to follow a certain path through their education, and whether we are aware of it or not we all get swept along with it. Junior school..SATS, secondary school, GCSE's, A levels, Uni! Perform, perform, perform.....results...results, results....But just who is that for....our children..or the schools results!
I think this is one of the reasons we have spent so many years battling with our 15 year old daughter (7 so far) is that we think going to scvhool is what's best. The school harass you to ghet them in...have a go at you and threaten social services...you can't provide a medical note as the GP won't take responsibility for the mental health of a child...then you wait a year for CAMHS..they can't offer anything..oh they will treat with anti-depressants, but won't commit to a diagnosis...without which you child id off school 'unauthorised'.so you go private and finally SOMEONE will write a medical cert. But still you feel that they need to be in school, because the school keep pushing. Now I've been on here and seen other peoples comments I said to my hubby...does it really matter if she doesn't do GCSE's? He's having a harder time accepting that. BTW my original thought regarding my daughters behaviour was PDA (Pathological demand Avoidance) I want a proper assessment done by someone who knows what they are doing. PDA or school avoidance...I need the school system to take me seriously for once. So what if one of the pupils they expected to get a load of grade a's doesn't get them. they should be more concerned about her as aperson...not a statistic!!
OOpps..that turned into a rant

Hi everyone

I have just been reading all the posts and nodding my head continuosly.
I was at the end of my tether yesterday and rang a 'parent help' line. They were lovely at the other end and knew about SR and stressed the need to get the 'right' help with someone who actually works on that specific issue.

And yes Nellie- it is like being on a speeding conveyer belt of school - racing towards those results...or else.......but or else what! There does not seem to be anyone in the education system who can sit down and talk about 'education' in the broadest sense of the term. You are right - they are all there to talk about attendance and marks but not about the welfare nor the overall education of our child. No body has ever asked me if my son has ways of being educated outside of the school system or even if I have lots of books in the house (I do.....but not that he reads them....too much sucked into the Internet world these days : (

And welcome Peter. It is nice to see a father involved. I get the impression that many father's still have a tendency to believe the son/daughter is playing up. OR perhaps also that is their safety mechanism as nothing else seems to be working so taking that road is at least addressing something. Sometimes mum's, however, have too much empathy, and we get swallowed up with the incredible daily stress of it all. You sound like you have the right attitude all round - but I can hear your stress.....we know how you feel.

You may have noticed my recent posts on the pressure the school has put back on me. But I go very hesitantly back into the world of consequences as they never worked before when he was younger. But worth a try I guess. Interesting what your psychologist said about that, Peter. What was their reasoning re not doing bribes or consequences? Seems too many professionals just suggest that as they don't know what else to suggest!

I really relate to the comments you made, Peter, about our kids hating us one minute and needing us the next. It happens so quickly that I find I am unable to relax in between - I am always on my guard.

We have a public holiday here. The relief is enormous!
Take care - and especially to any of you who have just joined. Keep posting.
Linda xx

Hi Nellie, my experience with CAHMS (so far) has been different. It depends on local authority and individuals involved I guess. Also the situation is a compounded as the school phobia has come from time dealing with other issues, hard to get back after a long break and stigma attached to her problems. I remember the GP looked at me with horror when I said she had stopped going to school, she obviously knew how hard it is to get them back one not going to school becomes a 'habit'. Honestly, I need CAMHS at least for backup if it gets worse god forbid. They have actually helped me keep calm on occasions, and a couple of the therapist did say 'so she doesn't go to school, is it the end of the world'. Like us, the primary concern is with the child's mental health and well-being, school comes second BUT they know that the two are interwoven. Just my experience mind you, I know the health service can be a lottery.

"father's still have a tendency to believe the son/daughter is playing up. OR perhaps also that is their safety mechanism as nothing else seems to be working so taking that road is at least addressing something."

Honestly, in the beginning I felt it was a little bit of attention seeking and selfish. But now I feel empathy. I see her in the morning deliberating, fighting with the side of her that wants to go to school and the other side of her that just feels weird and different. Fighting with the guilt, the isolation, the anxiety, the depression and it breaks my heart sometimes - the phobia has become a bad habit that is so hard to kick. And then she closes up and can't deal with anything. We have hugs and I support best I can, but know that I need to be seen as a rock who is always there for her and will love her whatever. So a rock, albeit a bit porous, is how I try to act in front of her.

"People really don't understand what it is like and the guilt that you feel as a parent, I feel like I am letting my son down on a daily basis." It is hard not to feel guilty when other parents have their kids going to school and find it hard to understand the situation. That guilt just means you want the best for you son and that is admirable and loving. Love it good, guilt can be damaging so don't blame yourself.


It is a rollercoaster.

Hi All,

It so nice to know you are not alone. My year 8 daughter has not been in school since last October. We have been down the CAHMS route which didn't help and now at last a home tutor which is going really well. Everyone has said it is a long road and what keeps us going is that our daughter has always wanted to return to school just physically can't do it. She has been diagnosed as suffering from social anxiety and secondary school can be a scary place for any kid never mind one who is shy and a worrier.

Keep smiling everyone, I have shed many tears over the last 7 months, have screamed on many occasions but I am finally at the acceptance stage where I am going with the flow with a deep down hope that one day we get back to normality.

Hi Sue - You know it seems to get alot better when you accept the situation, but it takes a long time ot get there. So glad the home tutoring is going well - it saved my son and on the whole, we do have the occassionally wobble - few and far between it has been great.

Hope it continues to go well.

Sarah xx

Peter, Sue, Nellie,

How are things going with you all at the moment?
Linda

Nickie,

I meant to ask when you posted. Can you explain more about what the BACIN team is and does? Is this only when your child has had a 'diagnosis' that is recognised by the school? How are things going with you?
Linda

Hi Linda

BACIN is behavioural and curriculum inclusion, they have been involved with my son on and off for 7 years,although i only found out it has been this long through reading it on his RSA, they have carried out various observations of him within the classroom, and then advised the school about how to deal with his non-engagement during lessons, in the area i live i believe they are usually involved prior to an EP.
My son was diagnosed with ASD last week, so now the school think he'll just go back because its all sorted.
i am trying to get some of his friends round so they can encourage him to go in, the school has eventaully dropped off some work for him to do and an RSA has been submitted, but with the move to secondary school looming im still in limbo land as i dont know if he will take up his placement or go to a DSP, he is now eligible for hospital and outreach which is home based tuition, but if its not the right person delivering it, it wont work.

Hi linda,

Thanks for asking. Had a traumatic night on Friday as we were supposed to be a friends party, who is daughters best friends mother (best friend doesn't know about the school thing as goes to a different one), got outside the venue then she burst into tears and couldn't go in, after two attempts we set of home only for her to have a total anxiety attack because she felt she had let everyone down. Hyperventilating the lot. She is ok again now and is looking forward to her home tuition tomorrow. Just when you think things are getting better you get struck by a truck again, we are obviously still a long way of the mixing with big groups again. Only good thing was that for the first time my husband was present and witnessed what happens to her, hopefully he understands a bit better now.

Hi Sue,

Oh that must have been hard for your daughter. You are lucky she seems to have recovered from that 'hiccup'. It is not a total setback - just another bump on the road. Sometimes we focus so much on the school issue that we forget they have issues outside of school too. My son needs lots of encouragement to engage in group social/family functions - and I tend to become very frustrated! I just have to keep pushing him though - the more he does attend things - the better he will get - but sometimes as parents we just have to let it go.

I am so glad your husband saw this happen. It is hard when you have to tell them what goes on in a morning and they don't quite believe you! I had a similar thing happen to me when my ex was trying to take my son to a friend's house for lunch one weekend and my son had a full on breakdown beforehand. This is the first time he has seen the meltdown in action too. He seems to have changed his attitude towards me a bit as a result and perhaps understands how incredibly hard it is in a morning to work with that kind of thing. So hopefully you and your husband can work as a team and give support.
It is good that your daughter is still going ok with the tutors....hope she keeps feeling good about that.
Take care -
Linda xx

We've had a two week plan of slow integration. Odd hour on one day, slowly going back is the plan. Some days she just wont go, other days she find the enthusiasm and energy. But it is an incredible struggle. Morning are the most difficult as the school refusing has become a habit now. Ultimately, she needs to go in for her not us now, that is hard to explain. Trouble with a plan is that we need to stick with it and not go outside, but is she refuses you find you are only in for 1 hour or less. Its a trudge to the school and back.

On a positive, she is in school (a bit) and I dream that she breaks this bad habit. Every single day is such as struggle and I still find it hard not to get stressed about it. Wereas she is almost casual. Again I rewind 30 odd years and wonder how my dad would have reacted.

Wishing you all a stress free day.
Pete

Peter

It sounds like your daughter is heading in the right direction if she is managing the odd hour some days. I hope she can keep it up.

My son hasn't been at school at all since Feb half term. His big worry seems to be what the other boys will say to him if he goes back and he doesn't seem to be able to get over this (he only started the school at the beginning of the year)

Good luck, I hope things continue to improve for your daughter.

Sharon

Hi Peter,

Good luck - you have a plan and even if it wanders sometimes - you are working on something that might get her to that next step. My son never liked going in for a short time so for him it had to be getting there in the morning or he would refuse to go any other time during the day - he said it was because all the kids would ask why. Now he seems able to go in late - but even then - he gets very nervous (and not surprising as it must be like us stepping into a meeting that has been already going on for an hour and we have no idea what they have been talking about and whether there are expectations of us or not!).

I have found that keep trying has paid off for me. My son does get there mostly but it hasn't been a full week for awhile and this morning he refused to go to the athletics they were having in the morning but says he will go later (fingers crossed). It is stressful! As parents we can't help but be stressed as this is so incredibly tedious and frustrating and nothing like we ever would have imagined we'd have to deal with. I know how you must be feeling each day.

You make reference to your dad and years ago - I too have sometimes wondered if it is my style of parenting but you can't beat yourself up over that because all parents are parenting different these days. Whilst I also imagine my dad would have just waltzed me out the door with a threat in my ear - in reality - could he have done it? Is what we are facing with our kids now something that wasn't really around then? It is not just mild reluctance or laziness - it is something quite different and that is the hardest thing for us to come to terms with. What exactly is happening and why are our kids so anxious?

Hang in there! It is tough and takes its toll on our stress levels - keep posting - we definitely understand here. Others on here have saved me from days of despair. Good luck with the plan and hope it keeps on working - even if just small steps.
Linda

Sharon,

"My son hasn't been at school at all since Feb half term. His big worry seems to be what the other boys will say to him if he goes back and he doesn't seem to be able to get over this (he only started the school at the beginning of the year)"

My daughter is using CBT to help with this. It works some of the time and give her a good way of analysing her feelings even if things do not work out. CBT is not for everyone but it is getting her passed that blocker some days. Honestly, I don't think she know how to handle the feelings at first, she was beating herself up left, right and centre.