Hi everyone, my 16 year old daughter is due back at school next Monday after refusing since February. She has been having CBT with a psychologist and has managed to go in recently for her exams, albeit in a seperate room, but she has done really well. I think going back to 'normal' school is going to be more of a problem - being back in the classroom with her peers and the fear of having to leave for the loo (she gets an upset stomach when anxious). The psychologist is working to get her back at first for 3 hours a day, four days a week. This will mean going in about 10.30.

What I am wondering is, should I still get her up at 7.15 as if it is a normal day, or let her sleep in for a while? She loves her sleep and her anxiety is always worse first thing in the morning and worse if she is tired. However, all my instincts tell me that whether she is going in later or not, we should treat it as a normal school day and get her up normal time. I do think she has got rather used to her lie-ins.

What has anyone else done, I would appreciate hearing? Thanks,

R

Hi Ros,

Well done to your daughter for getting in for the exams. That is a big step forward.
Not knowing your daughter, it is hard to know what works best. I know where you are coming from though - have been though that with my own son re the sleep in or not if going in late.

Perhaps between now and then you could tell your daughter to work on a wake up plan that gets a bit earlier each day - so that it isn't such a shock when Monday comes around? Half an hour earlier each day? Then the day before get her up at the time that she will need to be up for school (even if she doesn't get up straight away - at least she is aware of the new time).

My gut feeling is that 7.15 is a bit early but others might disagree. She will have too long to be awake and worry about going? I have let my son sleep in when he can only make it later in the morning but found that getting up about 8.30 was as late as I could leave it without him then feeling like he couldn't go at all. So I guess you'll just have to find your way around this but perhaps an 8.30 get up time is ok for a10.30 start?

My son actually prefers to start when everyone else does - he feels at that later time, everyone is looking at him and they also ask' where were you?' which makes him terribly anxious. He does on some days, however, beg to go in late (then regrets it). But it can also depend on the subjects. Is it possible for your daughter to pick two or three lessons she feels she can attend rather than three hours? Some classes might be harder than others? In that case it might be different times that she goes in? Or is it vital she gets into a routine first? Good luck. Its a difficult time for you. Let us know how it goes.
Linda

Hi Ros

Well done to your daughter for going in for her exams what an achievement, sadly this didn't happen for my son !!

Has your daughter not left school being 16 or is she staying on ?

Advise for getting her up - ask her what she feels is best for her, let her make the decision and give her the option, this way if it goes wrong then it wasn't your choice. Our psycologist has always said give them the options and choices then they feel more in control.

Good luck we are all thinking of you.

Sarah xx

Good luck for Monday, Ros. Ironically, we have the 'Queen's Birthday' holiday down here on Monday! Remember - small steps are ok...even tiny ones that almost go unnoticed.
Take care,
Linda

Thank you very much for your replies and good wishes ladies. She told me yesterday that she is going in for one hour this week, the lesson that is after lunch. She and the psychologist have got a plan but it is funny she doesn't like to tell me about it. When I asked her about what she was intending to do this week she said "why do you have to get so involved?!" Er...hello? She really has no comprehension of how this has affected me and all the things I have done behind the scenes, all the letters, meetings etc. I kept my cool and said that I had to know as the school were in touch with me and would want to know what the plan was so they knew what to expect.

I think she will be ok this week although I know she will get the 'upset stomach' before she goes but I think she will go. I know the psychologist does not want her to rely on immodium and she said she was going to try without it.

Sarah, she is just finishing the first year of 6th form college which is at the school she has always been at. Just another year to go now to complete her A levels.

Linda, you are right, I won't get her up early as she will just get nervous, but I don't want her thinking it is a holiday either so there will have to be a compromise!

I will let you know how it goes!

R x

Hows things going, Ros? Have you had any small steps lately?
Let us know how things are going with your daughter.
All the best,
Linda

Hi Linda, thanks for asking. Oh I don't know. I am fed up at the moment. She has gone back and is doing an hour or two a day but is either sitting in the library or going to Art which I know she finds easier. I should be happy that she is back on the premises at all I know but I feel impatient (and desperately trying not to show it). She went in for her exams ok a few weeks ago and one day she was in school for 4 hours and came home seemingly fine. I know the psychologist and her have a plan which is one hour a day but some days she has just gone in for lunch or sat in the library and come home because the lesson straight after lunch has been cancelled (for sports day or something) so she says 'there were no lessons today'. What she means is that there were lessons in the morning but she is not going to those as that is not on the 'plan', so if the lesson in the afternoon gets cancelled (which she usually knows about in advance) she just doesn't go and doesn't say to herself 'ok I will go into the morning one then'. It seems to make a huge difference to her what time of day it is. She seems to be able to cope ok with a lesson at 2.00 but not at 11.00. Yesterday she tried to go in for a presentation/lecture which was at 11.00 and she got an upset stomach so didn't go. I just felt we were back to square one again. We have spent nearly £700 on therapy so far and money is tight at the moment but we have to continue with it as it obviously has helped (six weeks ago she wasn't going to school at all) but I guess I have realised it is going to be a very stop, start, slow process. I suppose I got my hopes up that she was improving and then yesterday they came crashing down because she didn't go in. Soon it will be the summer hols and she won't be able to put anything into practice, then she will be due back in September and I bet the holidays will have set her back and we could probably be at square one again.

Also, her attitude upsets me. She does not like to discuss anything with me. I never ask her about her therapy or pressurize her but I needed to know what the plan was with the psychologist as I needed to inform the school but she got really stroppy and bascially said 'why do you have to get so involved'? I said because I cared and I needed to let the school know what to expect. I said ' you seem to think it is none of my business' and she said 'well it isn't!'. I find this hurtful.

Sorry, not a good day today. I know in my heart this won't be forever but it feels like it and I am feeling sorry for myself! I long for a time when I don't have to worry about her.

Thanks for your support, I hope you are feeling ok,

R x

hi Ros,

I can feel your frustration and especially seeing you are not sure what is happening. That doesn't sound right to me, that the psychologist isn't including you in on the plan. Parents have to be in on the plan. Whenever a psychologist has worked out something for my son - they have talked to me about it. Everyone has included me in part of the sessions even though they have explained that they won't disclose everything that has been discussed - they want to hear my frustrations and also guide me in helping me guide my son. You cannot guide your daughter if the psych doesn't include you. I'd get active on that one and ring them up and ask to see her for part of the session at least or a whole session just for you.

The good thing is your daughter is turning up to school. I wouldn't tackle your daughter on this - but as I say - ask the therapist about this. How is the school taking it? Usually the school, as you say, want to be in on what is happening too so that they also officially know if your daughter is at school or not during the day.
As for the hour at which she seems more able - I think mornings are particularly bad for SR kids. Partly because of lack of sleep but also because they build up such dread at that early morning time. Their circadian rhythms might be out of kilter too - as in the theory that the melatonin levels can be affected by lack of sleep. Not that I am an expert on this - but have read quite a bit as my son doesn't face mornings well.

Perhaps your daughter can feel your impatience? Just a guess - but that might make her feel she cannot tell you what any plan might be? It does take awhile to be able to accept the situation - and my son kept picking up on my impatient vibes every morning despite what I thought was a calm exterior. Even now - I still have those times. And the anger from your daughter to exclude you....that might just be typical teenager? From what I gather on this forum - a lot of SR kids, including my son, get particularly angry at us - we are the closest - they take their frustration out on us.

Sorry - raving on a bit here with hopefully some help - but it is so hard, isn't it - to know which is the best way forward. But I'd get in touch with the psycholgist as your first step. And second step - try talking to your daughter about what she wants to do now and in the future so that she doesn't miss out on her education. Take a step back if you can - so that school isn't the only topic you end up discussing with her. My son screamed back at me once " all you ever talk about is school, school, school!" And so we do - as it is every day - but I did direct my conversations elsewhere after that and bit my tongue about mentioning school every day.
Let us know how you go - and feel free to rant and rave as much as you like. We are here to support - we understand what you are going through as our stories are all so similar.
Take care,
Linda x

Linda, please don't apologise for 'raving on', I really appreciate your advice! You are right in that I need to speak to the psych and that i should be more involved. I think he thinks that my daughter is communicating with me but she isn't so he needs to know this. Obviously I have gleaned that they are working on her doing one hour a day after lunch at the mo but do not know what the plan is after that.

I think a lot of her attitude with me is the teenage strops, we generally have a good relationship but she never talks to me about private stuff and I guess that isn't unheard of for a teenager. As you have said, she probably does sense my disappointment/worry/frustration when she doesn't go in (even though I think I am a marvellous actress!)and maybe she doesn't want to worry me or make me 'cross' (I was only 'cross' once and she has never let me forget it!).

I asked her the other day how she had managed to go into school for her exams, after all, one day she was in school for four hours and she replied "because I had to". I therefore wonder if she will 'step up' a bit more in September as she knows they are starting the new syllabus and she will be learning new stuff that can't be missed, whereas the last few months they have been going over old stuff for revision purposes and it hasn't been the end of the world that she wasn't there as she could revise at home (mind you, we will see what the exam results are in August!).

Also I have a dilemma about the immodium. The reason my girl is phobic is that she gets the physical symptom of diahorrea when she is anxious which makes sitting in a classroom difficult. I know the psych is working on reducing her anxiety levels so she doesn't have to rely on the medication but I am starting to feel that if she takes it early enough and it stops the stomach problems, she will be more confident about going to school and will be more inclined to go. I can't help feeling that it would be better to get her back into school on the medication and then when she is more settled, wean her off, rather than the other way around. I don't know, I need to speak to him about this too.

I am so pleased to read on another thread that your boy has now gone into school for 5 weeks, that is amazing, I am really happy for you!

I find it quite fascinating that SR children seem to have the thing in common of getting anxious on public transport. I suppose the public transport is transporting them away from home and they don't feel safe?

WIll let you know how this week goes and thank you again for all your support

R x

Good luck for this week, Ros. Hope you can find out a bit more from the psych on what is happening. Can you talk to the psych yourself at beginning or end of session they have with your daughter? Or even sometimes be in the session for 10-15 minutes with your daughter?
Take care,
Linda x

Hi Linda, I hope you have had a good week! How is your son getting on?

Well, not much improved here. I contacted the psychologist saying that my daughter was not communicating with me and that I felt I was in the dark about what was going on. He said that it would be beneficial for us three to have a meeting or for me to sit in on one of the sessions and he would put it to my daughter. Well, of course, the little darling said no! So he emailed me saying that she was aware that I wanted to help but that she wanted to work through her difficulties herself. He said his hands were tied as she was his client and if she chose not to involve me, he had to go with that. She has just turned 17 and I suppose if she was younger and legally obliged to attend school, I guess I would be more involved but her age means that she is 'Gillick Competent' (I had to look that one up) which basically means she is considered old enough to make her own decisions and doesn't have to tell me.

So, I felt really angry and rejected last week but did not say anything to her. We are now at the beginning of another week and I have no idea if she is going to make a supreme effort to go into an actual class or not. My other daughter reckons that she she could go in more if she put her mind to it but because the school are winding down now and she can 'get away with it' she is not pushing herself. She thinks that when September comes she will step up to the plate and go in more. She may have a point and that makes me even more mad!!

I have thought that maybe I should just say "ok then, your future is in your hands, I am backing off, only you can put a foot into those classrooms, I can't make you, you do what you think and if the school can't support you through your last year because of low attendance then that is your responsibility". She has made it quite clear she doesn't want me involved so maybe I should say (with love) 'you are on your own?'

I am so trying not to take this personally and be hurt but it is hard. I know that a lot of it is her asserting her indpendence but, hey, I am paying shed loads of money for these sessions, how can she think it is nothing to to with me?!

Ho hum, life eh?

Looking forward to another wonderful week!

R xx

Hi Ros,

Oh it must be hard and frustrating! She might be 17 but you can see that she needs the support - but how to give it without her thinking you are too involved! Has she always wanted to be independent? Or is it just in relation to the anxiety of going to school?

It is a shame both she and the psychiatrist feel unable to involve you. Do you think she has any acceptance of what is happening to her or is just trying to pretend nothing is wrong?

Perhaps you are right - nicely step back and tell her you are happy for her to figure this out but that you are there any time she wants any support. She might be stuck in a bind at the moment that she feels that if you are too involved, she is actually letting you down more often and as a teenager finding it frustrating to see your disappointment (no matter how much we try and hide it....I guess it is kind of there). By not having you involved, she doesn't have to feel the expectations are there. But as you know, that could work either way! Fingers crossed for you that things start to improve and especially after the break (when do your holidays start?).

We have two weeks holiday now. This last term my son managed to halve the number of days that he had off in comparison to first term. He struggled to attend this last week. He was already exhausted and his brain on holiday!
I have my fingers crossed that the next term progresses just as well or even better but I always get nervous toward the end of holidays.

Meanwhile I hope by stepping back your daughter can start opening up a bit more to you. It really wears you down, doesn't it. Try and do some things for yourself over the weeks ...treat yourself to something - you are doing what any good mum would try and do to help their daughter in this situation.
Take care - let us know how things go.
Linda

Hi Linda

Oh dear, it has all come to a head. Basically daughter was sitting quite happy watching TV at lunchtime yesterday. I asked her what time she was going to school,she said "don't know" and I said what did she mean she didn't know, it was nearly one o'clock and she said "I haven't decided yet". I asked her if she was going to try and go in for the lesson at two and she said "I don't want to". I kept my patience and said that she had done her exams, she could go in for lunch and sit in the library, she could go in for Art, why couldn't she go in for her other one hourly lessons, what was the difference?. She said "I don't know". She told me to stop 'nagging' and that I was 'always on at her'. I said that wasn't true as it was a week ago that I had last asked her what she was doing that day. She had a real sullen, superior look on her face. I said she was being rude and disrespectful and she said that I was being rude and disrespectful to her! So basically I blew. I said that I was very hurt by her attitude, that she was lucky to have such understanding parents and that some parents would have just dragged her by the arm into school, that I had worked very hard behind the scenes for the last 6 months trying to help her, that I had been on medication to help me sleep as I was so worried, that her dad and I had so far paid £700 for private therapy but she was just going in for lunch and then sitting in the library. She was quite shocked and went upstairs in tears and I slammed out of the house. I have never done that before in 20 years. I came back a few hours later and she was subdued. I told her I had made a decision. That her life was now her responsiblity. That no-one could make her go into her lessons, that only she could put a foot into that classroom, that I was going to tell the school to liaise with her and not me (after all what's the point, I don't know anything) and that if she couldn't go in to school in September, she would not be able to do her final exams and that she would have to leave and get a full time job. She said "that isn't going to happen" and I said "so are you saying you will go back in September" and she said "yes".

I told her that we loved her and were always there for her but she wanted me to 'butt out' so I was 'butting out'.

I think she was quite shocked and goodness knows what is going to happen now but I just can't do this anymore - my health is suffering. She is 17 and needs to take responsibility

She is ending therapy next week for the summer (they break up on 20th July till beginning Sept) and we will pay for her to have some therapy sessions at the end of Aug/Sept. But if she still can't go in for an hourly lesson (she would have had at least 10 CBT sessions by then) then there seems no point in continuing.

I am glad your son has had less time off sick, well done him! I know just what you mean about being ok during the holidays and then getting gradually more nervous before the start of term, you just don't know how they are going to be. It sounds like you both need a good break.

'Speak' soon,

R xx

Oh dear, Ros.

As you may have noticed, I have not been active on the Forum for a while now. But I could not let this go without commenting.

How I feel for you!!

Of course you love your daughter and want to be there for her. And of course by putting pressure on her, you are trying to make her see the reality of her situation - and yours.

Something that worries me is that she may be told that there is no place for her in school next year if she does not attend between now and the end of term. Perhaps the rules are different for you, but in Scotland that can be the case once children reach 16.

The pressure will be off for you all during the holidays, and I guess you need that as much as your daughter does. But do not leave it too long to restart the therapy, as she may think it unnecessary in a month's time, but anxiety will rise as the new term approaches, and you want that lifeline in place before it does.

As for being 'rude and disrespectful' with a 'sullen, superior look on her face', I think we have to remember that she is a 17yr old teenager! We don't like it, but that is often something all parents have to cope with, work through, and remain a loving family.

Remember to take care of yourself. make a plan of how you are going to do that - and stick to it.

Simon

Hi Simon and thank you for your reply.

I too, have been worried about whether the school will continue to support her in her second and final year of A levels but today I feel more reassured as she has received her 6th form report and it is absolutely glowing despite her absence! All her teachers have said how impressed they are with her conscientiousness and her hard work despite all her difficulties and how she has kept in good touch with her teachers and produced high quality work.She has gained mostly A's. The overview of the report written by the Head of Year was that they were hoping that her attendence was going to improve, but that they were going to continue to support her over the next year as she has proved she can work effectively on her own!

That is a huge weight off my mind and I wish I had known all this before I blew up at her the other day. However, it has done some good, some things needed to be said, I don't think it has hurt her to realise how much this has affected me and she has been a lot nicer to me since then. It has cleared the air. I have always been sympathetic to her problem but her attitude to me of "butt out" has been hurtful, but as you say, I must remember she is a teenager and they are not the most pleasantest of creatures at times!

She has one more therapy session next week then we will resume them at the end of August a couple of weeks before she is due back. We all need a break and we are off to Corfu in a couple of weeks for some rest and relaxation.

I do feel better today and thank you for your support. I hope things are ok with you.

Ros

Congratulations on the exam results - and on the school's reaction to them and your daughter's situation.
generally speaking, our children do seem to be high achievers - if only they had the self confidence to go with it.

As my sergeant major said, we need to stay cool, calm and carbolic. Have a relaxing time on Corfu and do your bit for the Eurozone.

Simon

Will do Simon! I have never needed a holiday so much in my life!

I have realised that my daughter is no longer 'school phobic' but is now 'classroom phobic' which I guess is an improvement! Someone yesterday suggested that she feels better in Art because they can move around and probably go in and out of different rooms to fetch materials etc, whereas in the more academic classes they have to sit in rows at desks. I think there is something in this, she obviously feels trapped in such an environment and feels that she can't leave if she needs to.

I feel I have a bit more understanding of the difference now (although of course she would never tell me, I have to figure it all out for myself!).

R