Just wondering if anyone else has heard of this world and their relationship with their School REfusal child referred to in this manner?

For a good explanation please see:
http://www.nursetogether.com/Lifestyle/Lifestyle-Article/itemId/601/Are-You-Enmeshed-with-Your-Children-.aspx

Basically it is almost like a controlling thing and living our emotions out through our children. Projecting our need for an identity onto them and thus having no independence from each other.
I am a bit taken aback on this. How do we, as parents of a child with anxiety, not focus on the child's wellbeing to such an extent that it takes over every day. Of course if my son goes to school I feel happy and if he doesn't I feel down. I do not believe I do the other things mentioned on the site above. I feel as if I am being told that my son is the way he is because of my lack of self identity and that I also do not allow him to be independent. . It sounds very smothering....but I have been trying so hard for my son to be more independent but with anxiety - they just refuse. Now I know why the psychologist was not pleased that after talking to my son about friendships and he agreed he'd like to have his friend over or go round there, I had rung up the mum of his friend (after talking with him) and arranged he go and visit. She said this was just not on with a 12 year old and they need to ring up themselves. But he wouldn't do that - so on the one hand they say - make sure he meets up with his friends and on the other hand I am being told - but not if you have to organise it!! Obviously I wouldn't do this in another year as he would be mortified to think his mum would do this (and it was only with a friend whose parents I have known for 6 years....would never do it with any new friends or friends where I did not know the parents well). When I told the psychologist about this social visit I was pleased because this mum had then rung me back later and said 'is it ok if he stays for tea?'. I thought that was terrific....but again....the mistake I made was organising it even though I did it with my son. I am very confused on that one and feel the information I receive is conflicting.

I am pretty analytical and have had a good hard look at who and what I am and realised that at some stage I did feel I was getting swallowed up by the whole thing and so joined an art class and now exhibit my art. I also do some other work from home and have been trying to find a job that does a few hours each day.

Do I sit in a chair and cry. Yes....but not to make my son feel guilty but because we have both been yelling at each other because everyone keeps telling me the only way forward is to force him to school every day.

I think somewhere in my head this proves to me that you cannot force your child to go to school every single day of the year if they have anxiety because otherwise you are never giving them any feeling of control and so it will back fire - as it does with me. My ex thinks I am enmeshed. I am wondering if he is.....he rings every day to check if our son has gone to school. But are we perhaps both just a bit obsessed because of this 'have to get them there every day or they will end up a basket case kind of thing.' Surely a child needs to have times of happiness outside of school and sometimes going every day for 5 days means that the weekend becomes a nightmare as they spend Saturday recovering and Sunday worrying!!
I just can't believe I am an 'enmeshed' parent but perhaps others have been told this too - and so are we? And if we are - what does this mean anyway? Are they saying we started this anxiety....or have we become enmeshed as a result? I am going to seek further professional opinion because if I do have this trait - then obviously I need to work it out but if I don't - then surely this particular psychologist has totally missed the point of my son's anxiety and how he has to be helped and myself supported. Feeling very confused and a bit overwhelmed.
But.....my son went today....: )
Linda

Hi Linda,

I was told I was too emotionally entangled with my son which I guess is the same thing. But I was told it was a symptom of his anxiety not the cause. Possibly just to make me feel better. My therapist was always saying there is no blame in therapy just 'unhelpful behaviour' which we can change. The one thing that she used to get cross with me about however was crying in front of my son. She said that just made my son feel worse and blame himself and chip away at his self-esteem which is practically non-existant with SR children anyway. She said if I felt upset to go and lock myself in the bathroom. I hasten to add, I have cried many times in front of him and I did it last week. But I know all it did was make myself feel better for a short while and then feel very guilty and try and make it up to him. She said that if my son didn't make it in to school, I must try to detach myself and go off and do something, leave the house or even lock myself away in my bedroom. Be distant and calm. She'd say that it was OK for my son to feel sad, upset and he had to learn to deal with these emotions on his own as that is what life is about. We can't make everything alright for them and they have to learn this. She'd say that although my son was very mature and self-aware in someways, he was emotionally immature and at home was the best place for him to start to learn how to deal with emotions.

This last week I did just that. When he couldn't make it in, I was very cool with him and did go out and make myself busy. i did not say it would be alright but that i would support him with his decisions. IE if he didn't go in, he would be homeschooled and I would support him. I think this freaked him out a bit and he did take control eventually. I did feel very mean but it seems to have worked.

It is so hard and try not to take it personally. Easier said than done. With regard to my husband, I think he is as bad as the teachers! For the last two years he has run out of the house every morning and comes home late. He just cannot deal with it and I have finally accepted that I am dealing with this on my own. Interestingly, he has been away on business for the last two weeks Doesn't help with the emotional entanglement though.

Remember Linda, you are doing the best you can and it is a journey. We are only like this because we love our children so much.

Try and have a lovely weekend. Maybe you can suggest to your son that he rings his friend and sees if he wants to go for a bike ride or kick a ball around. Thats what I used to do and eventually he did. I don't think there is anything wrong with you ringing the boys mother so don't beat yourself up.

Sophy

Hi Linda

I hadn't heard of an Enmeshed Parent before.

My feeling is that the psychologist is wrong and is completely missing the point! I don't feel that from anything I've read that you've written on here that you fit the description. You are just doing the best you possibly can for your son and doing what you can to help him, and it's fantastic that you're also doing something for yourself with the art. Definitely get a second opinion.

And don't worry about phoning up to organise your son going to his friend's. Some children are very good at sorting this sort of thing themselves, but I think that boys can still be especially bad at this even at 12 (or older). You're just helping him out and showing him what to do until he is able to do it himself. I have done the same thing before with my eldest son (and not SR) when he was 12 or 13.

Sharon

Thanks Sophy and Sharon. I agree with what you are saying. I think that making out that we have an enmeshed relationship is a bit of a dangerous thing really - it sets the whole thing off onto a different level and also reinforces the idea that others seem to have that we are somehow weak or too intune with our child's emotions and that is what has caused this. We become entangled, as you point out, Sophy, because of dealing with an anxious child every single day! And we do this on our own as usually one parent is off to work and misses the drama that enfolds afterwards.
It just worries me that if the psychologist goes down that path it won't actually help my son. I thought we were going to see her to work on cognitive behaviour therapy because that is what the psychiatrist said my son needed but she understood that she herself cost too much - so we might have to find someone else. So we did.

The thing I find difficult too is that his father texts me several times every morning and if I don't reply or reply quick enough...he rings. It drives me insane. It should be me ringing if I need help. But he claims that I don't always ring and so my son still misses some days of school. My argument is that there will always be some days he can't get there - so lets step back and stop hassling him about every single day of his life at school. Give him some breathing space (and me).
But his father seems to think he has to be checking on the situation to ensure he goes every day. As a result I feel disempowered and also constantly being checked up on. The psychiatrist told him that I would ring him if needed. But now we are not seeing her (and he didn't like her much) - then he seems to have convvinced this psych that this is what has to be done. She says the parents have to form a working team to get him there every day.
This might work if you were a married couple - but I am sure if any of you are sole parents - working daily with an ex partner is not the easiest thing and creates more stress that I probably then project onto my son!!! I do not want daily contact with someone who should now have another life and just offer support.....or am I wrong again!!! SOmetimes it is all so confusing because so few understand. I know all of you on here do understand - thank you so much for being here for me when things get tough : )
HOlidays now....so I must forget school for awhile and just work on getting him out of the house and still interacting with others.
Have a lovely weekend...
Linda

Hi Linda

That's a really difficult situation with your son's father. Obviously him texting you every morning is really not helpful, but how can you get him to understand that. He needs to realise that you are already going to be doing everything you can to get your son to school and that he needs to be there to help if you call him, but him contacting you when you are busy doing your best with your son is not helpful. If he really needs to know what's happening on a daily basis, then maybe you can agree that you will text him at a certain time (e.g. 10am or 11am) to tell him whether your son is at school or not. Can you set aside some quiet time when you sit down with your son's father and come up with a plan that works for both of you - I know though that this might be something that simply won't work!

How often does your son see his father? Does he stay over at his house?

Does your son talk about what makes him most anxious about school? Your son seems to be doing so well with getting to school a lot of the time, I'm wondering if there's more that the school could be doing to make it easier for him.

Sharon

Hi - well i will throw this theory right out of the window - i have 2 sons 1 with anxiety and one who is very confident, both bought up the same and treated the same !!

It is so easy for professionals to say we should do this and should do that - bet most of them haven't had first hand expereince !!

So guys, you are all great parents doing your best, and doing a fab job so keep up the good work, you know your child better than anyone.

Take care all of you.

Sarah xx

Thanks Sophy, Sharon and Sarah for your input and support on this one. I have arranged to talk with the psychologist this week about this matter before there are any further meetings with my son.
And Sarah - yes - you bring it all back home with your example. I think there are a lot of fingers get wagging and pointing when they see 'sole parent' and then 'only child'. It's like their brains go into set psychological analysis overload. Yet a lot of parents like yourself, have other children, and no probs.
I'm beginning to feel more and more we have to get to the bottom of what causes this, otherwise, they are always going to over analyse the parent.

Sharon - thanks for your advice. It is helpful. I will write down what I think will work as a plan for me. I think ringing when I need help is the major one.
I think the psychiatrist hit it on the head though when she said that my ex must not take away my empowerment as a parent. The new psychologist is a lovely lady but very young. The psychiatrist was early 60s.....she'd lived and had a family. She wasn't just referring back to textbook advice.

We need to move forward. I changed....you may recall on here that I was at my wits end when I found this site. I listened carefully to advice - Sarah - you were one of those - and the original Sue and Sophy - and you all said ' stand back and accept' and education in school isn't the only way. It was the best advice anyone has given me. No psych has even come near to saying that (well - the psychiatrist did I guess....pity she cost so much!). My acceptance of the anxiety helped my son to keep going to school.

What I now think they are all thinking is that seeing he is mostly going....then this might not be 'TRUE' school refusal (in fact this is what one of the teachers at the school has said) and it might be just him wanting to stay home with mum. My thought are .....no......he had his weeks off in a row back in primary school - then we moved forward (not far enough to go continuously) but far enough to keep tackling it. Some kids just go back full time.....but probably not many. So instead of seeing him going mostly as a positive thing.....they are seeing it as a negative. So I can't win! And of course there is an element of rather s tay home with mum than be at school - but it isn't the thing that caused it in the first place. He went fine to primary school for the first half of term one in prep...then it all turned upside down.

Thanks everyone on here - your support and reading yours stories (sadly many more difficult than my own) gives me the strength to keep going and realise I am just not going to get the support from those who should be giving it to me. The school are always going to be on my back. The psychs will always see what they want to see from their analytical perspective. What I personally think my son needs is a course in self esteem. He needs someone to embrace his strengths and work on those and give him the skills and confidence to accept that he is ok and to not keep looking negatively at himself and his situation. I might just be his mum.....but as you say Sarah, we know our children : )
Sorry for the long post!! I will check in to give support even though we have holidays here. The relief is enormous!
Linda

Hi Linda - I feel so much for you. I would hate to be dealing with my ex on a daily basis. He only became involved with our situation for one week and it nearly drove me nuts.
I don't believe for one minute that you are an enmeshed parent....just a loving mum trying to do what is best for her son under very difficult circumstances.

Hi, Linda. I doubt very much that you are an "enmeshed parent" from reading your posts. As you say, it is difficult not to get caught up in what is going on with a SR child as it does tend to dominate your life. I think that there is often labelling of parents of SR children as being somehow at fault: we are too soft, or too anxious, too involved in our children (although schools don't want us to be anything but very involved it has to be on "their terms"). Heaven forbid that the school should look at whether anything in their environment triggers anxiety. The assumption is that it the majority of children appear to be ok with it then the school is fine and any difficulties lie in the family. In fact I believe there are a number of children who have difficulties with school but because they attend regularly this goes unnoticed.

It sounds like you are doing the right things by making sure you have your own interests and distancing yourself, to a degree, from your son's decisions about school. Terms like not "true school refusal" don't seem to be very helpful. I imagine that if we did an analysis of the chldren whose parents have used this site we'd see quite a varied pattern of attendance/non-attendance.

I think we have to reject labels which are unhelpful for either our children or for us as parents and concentrate on providing an education rather than schooling. I'd be quite happy at this stage to take my son out of his secondary school as I find them difficult to work with. However, he wants to get himself back in there and so we are continuing to try to reintegrate him as we feel he should be the one who decides whether to keep going with school or be educated at home. Best wishes to you.

Linda, you are definitely not an enmeshed parent. If you were, you would not have your own identity and the two of you would be 'as one', not able to do anything without each other. I learned about enmeshment when I trained as a counsellor and enmeshed couples are the ones that don't go anywhere without each other, don't have any seperate interests, answer for each other in conversations and feel completely lost without the other person to prop them up. You hear lyrics in songs - "I am nothing without you" (which really annoys me!). That is not you and your son, you are understandably worried sick about him which means that you are thinking about him and talking about the 'problem' a lot.

My daughter does seem better now, thank goodness, (although I keep waiting for a relapse!) but all this year all I have thought about and talked about is this huge problem of her avoiding school, it was like I couldn't think of anything else. It is just a huge worry filling your head, not an unhealthy reliant relationship.

Don't let the buggers get you down!!

Ros xx

Thanks everyone who has replied to this, Sophy, Sandy, Ros, Leah, Sarah and others. It has made me realise that this is really just another person in authority who doesn't seem to understand our situation. It is hard when you are told this though, to step back and say 'hold on a minute' as at the time I feel either worn out or almost withdrawn - kind of sick of the situation. I am not my usual self when I am confronted by those who don't seem to get the situation for what it is.
Thanks again - armed with all your support I feel better now to ask directly what made her come to this conclusion without actually questioning me and my version of events.
Hope you are all surviving!
Take care -
Linda

hi everyone,

I spoke with the psychologist and explained that I was not happy with her label of being enmeshed. We ended up agreeing to disagree. I am disappointed she could not see the full picture.

But then we had a session with her with my son, my ex and myself and it ended up being fairly positive. We are going to work extra hard at ensuring he gets to school when term starts back and my son has agreed that whilst he might not like this it is something that has to be done. As we all know from experience - you can have grand plans - but the unpredictable nature of this anxiety makes plans difficult.
Good luck to everyone else and thanks again for your support,
Linda

"Just wondering if anyone else has heard of this world and their relationship with their School REfusal child referred to in this manner?"

I've heard it a lot and unfortunately most of the psyche resources I can locate on the net support this view that the parent/s end up trauma bonding with their school refusing child and enabling or exacerbating the behaviours.

I can see how this would apply in some cases but as a generalisaton it is not a label I am happy with either. I have worked hard over the years through therapy, group and self support to come to terms with my own past traumas and adaptive behaviours, I do my very best to be a balanced and emotionally healthy role model to my children and I am not happy about being labelled and put in boxes by school personnel and ed psyches.

It is unfair that in seeking to find authentic support for our children, that along the way we also have to prove ourselves as sane. Of course the appropriate and natural frustration and anger that bleeds through at times just gives more ammunition for the professionals to say "aha, you see - enmeshed!" it drives me nuts!!

Hi, Just read your post and couldn't help agreeing with you.
I often feel the same way, and am also recovering myself from a traumatic breakdown of my own long term abusive relationship.
My son of 13 has refused school now for 8 months and has just had his second session with CAMHS.
I must admit I feel quite helpless at the moment and am trying to keep myself positive in every way.

Hi Tracy, sorry to hear you are recovering from an abusive relationship. Here is a link to a list of disordered (abusive) behaviours which helps to shine a bit more light on the manipulations that these type of people use on gentler/giving types. The site also has a toolbox with resources to help the abused person realise none of the abuse was their fault, to reclaim their self esteem and set personal boundaries with dysfunctional people in their lives. It really helped and still helps me in my own recovery process.

http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Top100Traits.html

I co-parent with an undiagnosed narcissistic type man and he has caused me and our children no end of trouble over the years. By healing my own wounds, in time I overcame the irrational fear I had of him (which actually stemmed from abuse in my childhood) and then learned how to set firm limits when he tried to control or step over me and the kids. By default as I learned, I modelled this new healthy behaviour to my daughter's who as teens now practice setting their own boundaries with him when he lashes out or shames them.

If I am really honest then perhaps this abuse (which was there long before my daughter was ever bullied) is the core problem for her. When she was bullied I encouraged her to set boundaries with her aggressor but inside she already had unhealed issues with her dad. Bullies have a way of sniffing out vulnerabilities even when the facade of a target appears strong.

Perhaps enmeshment is an umbrella term for these kind of dynamics in families - it's a term that sets my teeth on edge though!

Hi Tracy and Clarity,

So sorry to hear both of you have struggled with an abusive relationship. It is interesting that perhaps most of us on here (not all) do have a few issues around home life that creeps up and into our kids - perhaps unknowingly. I have to agree that bullies pick on those who 'appear' vulnerable - but in fact they can also be vulnerable behind their bullying. There is an irony in this of course.
I keep trying to get my son to 'hold' himself up so that he does not draw attention to himself as being vulnerable. But when he feels withrdawn, his shoulders sag and he just looks so different - like a learning pole with clothes hanging off! When he feels good about himself - his whole body image is very different and he looks 'normal'.
I think the word enmeshed means too many other things but perhaps entwined emotionally is more relevant as this is what our kids end up being and so do we as we struggle to look after them.
We all become a slave to the anxiety.

I hope things start to move forward for both of you.
My son went in today (his dad came and took him) but this was after a complete meltdown last night - firstly after school then after going to bed. It is draining, isn't it!
You have both done well to hang in there through all of this. You are probably a lot stronger than you feel - and will be able to work through the issues with your children, even though it might seem like a huge mountain to climb - we will all get their via whatever paths we can.
Take care
Linda

My d and I are having this label of 'enmeshed' piled on in spades at the moment. It causes me to really question myself, if d is really capable of that level of manipulation (i.e. pulling suicidal notes out of the bag so I will keep protecting her).

Last night I went to bed at 8pm, I felt so bullied and upset by the way school personnel have been told to deal with us. We got close to authentic support from them last week but yesterday it is like the glimmer of understanding they showed us has disappeared. Of course they must feed back to those above and will have been put back on track. Dealing with enmeshed family here so back to tough love please - the 18 months of bullying is irrelevant don't give her an excuse to not be in school!

At least this is how it feels. Really, does authenticity, compassion, validation and understanding cause backward steps in traumatised children? If they would just try this method and then push at the right force, perhaps d would take some steps. It makes me so mad, they add to her resistence and then the fingers of blame come back on me.

We have meeting with two psychiatrists this morning. I am hoping they might prescribe meds for d to help her overcome some of her anxiety about school. Going on what SC said to me yesterday though, I am not expecting a yes on that.

Hi Clarity,

My heart goes out to you. It is just so tough when you feel that you are also being blamed and not seeing things for what they are. I think sometimes we learn so much about psychology ourselves that we could become professionals and help these kids. Whilst there might be an element of things having moved into a different sphere from the bullying for your daughter - that is all part of how things can trigger anxiety and then your daughter now doesn't know what exactly it is that makes her feel so bad. Her thoughts probably changed down that negative rut during the bullying and although it is no longer there- her thought pattern is. Why can't they see this?

And look, Clarity, the schools etc give us such a hard time, but we (on here) have all been there in regard to whether our kids are manipulating us or not. And to some degree- perhaps they are - but we have to look at why? Why would your daughter write a suicide note? Surely her whole aim in life isn't to just stay home and so this is the way to get your attention and say 'help'. She must be feeling so tied up inside that she honestly doesn't know which way is forward. She wants someone to take her seriously. And that is one of the the keys I think - even my son says to me sometimes still' why don't you take me seriously?.' I thought I did but I guess the problems are so huge that I don't always get it right. Anxiety has so many faces that it is sometimes hard to take everything seriously - we are all only human.
So I guess manipulation is actually part of it - but that does not mean that it is not a serious problem that they are trying to manipulate us for and it boils down to anxiety and depression. The kids are desperate. They need small steps forward not big jumps. I read on a site recently about 'how to deal with school refusal' and it said that it is like any fear - you have to keep facing your fear to get over it. Well - I don't think it is like 'any fear'. I think there are multiple layers of fear as schools these days are wanting kids to all fit in. They are supposed to be just like each other, do the same things, achieve achieve...achieve...and schools are unpredictable places, noisy and you stand out as there is no where to hide. For sensitive kids like ours - it must be a nightmare.

I don't know what to say but try not to let them get you down. You are doing all you possibly can. And being soleparents is so draining at the best of times but with our children - we have everyone pointing the finger even more. I hope that you can get some rest and find a way forward for yourself and then try and analyse what you think might help your daughter and try and put that back to the authorities.
I do hope the psychiatrists can either offer your the support you need or some meds that will take the edge off so your daughter can move forward. I can say that our psychiatrist at least does understand and although she says my son does have to keep trying to go to school (as staying at home would be worse for his self esteem), she does understand that there will be days he can't and times he has set backs. She wrote a letter to the school saying that they must understand that and accept that it will be up and down all the time and long term. They ignored her words. Then they ignored me (have had no contact from them for over two months now) and considering their attitude, then I am happy with that. A pity though - the schools should be asking us how they can support us - not dictating how things 'have' to be. Flexibility is the key to surviving this.
I hope you feel a bit better soon. Sending you a big hug from all the way down under : )
Take care,
Linda xx

Linda thanks so much for your thoughtful and warm words of support and encouragement. I was in a really dark place this morning and last night - sometimes this all gets too overwhelming and exhausting. The coldness with which school personnel deliver their 'support' sometimes really gets me down.

Thankfully the meeting with CAMHS went well today and d has been prescribed a low dose of fluoxetine to be reviewed in two weeks. I know meds on their own are not a cure or the complete solution but if it can just help her to get to the point where she can manage her anxiety enough to go to her 'green light' lessons, it would take so much pressure off us both from the school and education authorities.

CAMHS are going to get in contact with the school about CBT sessions with the SC to target the negative self-beliefs she has developed.

I could sleep for a week.

Thanks for the big hug :)