Hi Folks,

Just want to say hi and to ask if I could join your lovely, supportive group?

How I wish i'd found this site a few years ago! I am a Scottish single mum to 2 lively boys aged 14 and 12. My eldest has school refused since his first year in secondary school (2010) after being badly bullied and whilst also dealing with me and his dad's separation.

I've read a few of the posts on here and know that our story is so similar to most of you. The road you go down when your child refuses school is a devastating and lonely one, I found.

Over two years later, he's still a school refuser but thankfully we're not in that horrendous, emotive period where your head is spinning as you're knocked from pillar to post!

He is in a part time specialist unit which at least keeps the authorities off our backs. He's been there for a year but they cannot, at the moment, teach him what he needs. He's very bright and should have achieved high results had he been at school. Nowadays, I am grateful that he attends for the 3 * 1hr sessions!

I am currently fighting (and getting there!) for the correct level of teaching for him but am constantly met with the attitude of 'get him into school if he wants an education.'

We too have been through CAMHS dealing with various therapies, CBT, EMDR and family therapies etc and like a lot of you, my son refused to attend his appointments at times and really hated engaging with his therapist. After a year of CAMHS my son was diagnosed with an autistic condition, Aspergers (my youngest is autistic too).

I think the diagnosis is what keeps me out of the legal process but it also means that CAMHS are happy to stop therapy and lower their expectations for my boy. The pressure is less and they seem to have forgotten that my son was always top of the class, popular and never any problem until he was bullied.

I really don't know what the future holds but my son is doing better today than he has since all this started. He's no longer suicidal or depressed. We no longer fight or clash, I understand more and I don't listen so much to the supposed experts as much as I used to. I've had fantastic support from a local parent to parent group too.

That said, I ended up in therapy myself and still often need to talk over my anxieties of attending any school meetings that are coming up. I think I've been scarred for life! I still worry so much about his future and just don't know how best to support him especially as he still hopes to attend university.

When I look back at the early days, when I attended school with him; was threatened with prosecution; watched him get darker and darker; was told to ignore him for a whole day; was told to take all his things away from him etc etc I just don't know how we got through it.

I hope you are all still managing to put one step in front of the other and am so glad to have found this website.

Sorry if I've gone on and on - I've never spoken to anyone else who understands this journey before!

Jo

Hi Jo

So glad you found us on here! We certainly understand exactly what you are talking about and your story is very familiar. I know when I found the site a few years ago it was my saviour : ) If Simon had not set up this site I think I would still be floundering. Like you - I am now managing the situation much better and I am very lucky that my son has started going to school every day again. I had better not speak too soon though - as we have just had two weeks holiday and they went back today....he did go back - but it is usually the day after that he caves in.
No wonder some of us end up needing therapy too, like you mentioned for yourself - its just such a hard road, isn't it. I'm also a single parent - and so it can be very isolating. I now socialise in a way that even just a year ago - I couldn't. We end up trapped in the situation just like our children, don't we.

Do you think your son will ever be able to enter mainstream school again? Your journey of ending up getting some schooling might be inspirational for others - you might be able to offer some advice on the forum about how you came about this. Sometimes it is just trying to access what is available that takes forever. Some people on the forum seem to never get offered any help and just keep getting told its full school or nothing or prosecution.
Have you tried medication? My son takes Luvox and for us that has really improved his coping mechanisms. Hasn't taken away all anxiety - but allows him to face things much better and he is a much happier boy.

You sound like you think your son was fine until starting high school? Were there any symptoms you noticed back at primary school that you may have missed at the time? Did you suspect Aspergers when he was in primary school?
I notice a few children on here being diagnosed with Aspergers. I certainly don't know about any diagnosis but I can't help wondering if they really aren't sure and a diagnosis of Generalised Anxiety Disorder or Aspergers is about the most reasonable diagnosis they can come up with. What do you think? I have a feeling all our kids have some similarities - and some of these overlap with aspergers and all have in common the anxiety and then the depression that comes as a result.
And as you say - a diagnosis doesn't always mean the support gets better. What is your gut feeling on the diagnosis? Do you see similarities between your younger son with autism? How on earth you cope on your own with two children who don't quite fit the 'norm' I just don't know. You must have found some inner strength on your rough journey?

Sounds like you have had some awful meetings? They just make us feel so incredibly small and incompetent but they have no idea! I dress up a lot now and go with black folder under my arm and find I am able to rise above their predictable chatter about 'you know you have to get him to school....you must do this....you must do that....you have to remove all technology....if this continues the education authorities will be contacting you....force consequences for non attendance blah blah...." we hear it all the time, don't we. But I am no longer listening. Been there - done that - doesn't work....what next.....

Anyway - once again - so lovely to hear from you and please stick around and help out others who are at the beginning of their road and suffering the despair you felt a couple of years ago.
I am glad to hear things are more positive for you now - and hope it continues that way. Your son will get an education eventually but it might just not be on the straight road that most kids go on.
Take care and hear from you soon
Linda

Hi Linda,

Thank you for your reply, it is lovely to 'meet' you! I am so glad to hear that your son is attending school regularly - that is good news. I can imagine you still hold your breathe though! Must seem too good to be true that he's attending. How long did the school refusing last and how old was he when it started? What changed for him to get back into school? Were you able to pinpoint where his anxieties lay?

I don't think my son will return to his school any time soon. His problem started after being bullied for 8 months. He went on a part time timetable and received therapy to reintegrate with school. Unfortunately, every time he was successful the school failed to protect him from the bullying. After repeatedly being attacked he just couldn't manage anymore. He became suicidal and depressed and had panic attacks if he was anywhere near his school.

It's taken the last 2 years for him to heal from that and become reintegrated into the education system. Fortunately, our local authority has a specialist education centre for children who cannot be in school. Sadly, these tend to be children who are experiencing emotional or behavioural difficulties and the centre adopts a holistic approach. They work one on one but can only offer tuition on core subjects and at a low level. So if my son was interested in art or home economics, he'd be fine but he is more a science/computing/maths/engineering kind of person. He is very able too so getting the correct level of education is difficult.

Funding for a teacher is being discussed at la level at the moment, so fingers crossed. The hope is to get him through to a level where he can go onto further education but that involves him overcoming some pretty big barriers!

It's interesting what you say about the similarities of a lot of the children on here and whether there is an overlapping of the common characteristics found in children with school refusal/phobia, anxiety disorders and autistic conditions. My youngest child is more classically autistic so it was easier to recognise from a young age. My eldest (and worst school refuser) showed little signs of autism at primary school and very much flew under the radar! In hindsight though, signs were certainly there. My overall view now is that his intelligence masked the autism. He used his intellect to copy the other children's social behaviour instead of knowing instinctively. He did find it incredibly difficult to leave me in his younger years. His teacher had to prise him from me which was fairly distressing for all involved. He had settled down by his third primary year however and was top of his class, liked by all and a general good all-rounder.

That said, he was incredibly quiet and rule bound. He used to be very afraid of getting into trouble by a teacher and wouldn't ask questions and hated to be singled out to answer a question in case he got it wrong. He found it difficult to properly engage in play with his peers and would ask me how the other children knew what to say to each other instinctively. When he was diagnosed with aspergers at aged 13yrs, he said that it was no surprise to him because he always felt that his thinking process was different. I just thought that he was quiet and sensitive by nature.

I have since done many courses on autism, sensory processing disorder and anxiety and have tried to become more knowledgeable on my children's conditions so that I can support them better. I'm no expert however but I understand that there are many co-morbid conditions that run alongside autistic conditions so it is not surprising that a child suffering with anxiety and school refusal often ends up with an autism diagnosis. In our case, the extreme fear/anxiety reaction to the bullying signposted a bigger problem in that other children wouldn't have had such an extreme reaction and then fail to respond to intervention. There was clearly something going on with my son's nervous system that was different to others.

So it's been baby steps with my son and will be for some time. He still refuses sometimes but it's not such a big deal. He has a habit of not sleeping too which is why the doc couldn't prescribe anxiety/depression meds. If he had his way, he would sleep all day and xbox all night!! But i'm sure most teenage boys are the same lol

I had to laugh when I read that you go to meetings dressed up and with a folder under your arm - I do the exact same! And I go fully informed of every law and entitlement and argue to the nth degree for what my son needs! After years of being told it's my parenting or my marriage breakdown or being fobbed off, I got so worn down. I moved house and local authority and made contact with a parent to parent organisation and soon got back on my feet and fighting again! I have to say though, I am brilliantly supported now and the worst of my fight is over (Praise God!!!)

It saddens me now to think of others going through this awful plight and how isolated you begin to feel when your child refuses to go to school. It's especially tough when the school threatens legal proceedings and you feel sick with worry on top of everything else you're dealing with. I still from time-to-time worry about getting in trouble. It's unfounded but I always feel under the microscope when so many people are involved with my children and I feel like they're waiting for me to trip up. I hate getting asked at meetings, how's his diet? how's his sleeping patterns? how's his exercising? friendships? seeing dad often? It makes me want to scream. I know they just have his best interests at heart but so do I! These people know more about our lives than I do!! I wonder how they'd cope if the tables were turned?!

Ha, I seem to be ranting!

Hope you're having a lovely day :) It's our summer holidays and the sun is shining which is just lovely :)

Take care and thanks again for replying.
Jo

Hi Jo

That was very interesting to read what you had to say about autism and some of the overlapping symptoms.
And also that your son, despite his sensitivity - went ok at primary school. I think kids are more accepting at that age and the environment with the one teacher is vastly different. They are suddenly left to their own devices at secondary school and its no wonder so many kids just can't take it.
The whole bullying thing is an enormous issue that schools don't seem to have a grip on yet, despite them saying they have programs in place.
My son also had great trouble separating from me when starting school - although - he went well for the first few weeks - so excited - made new friends - and then they went to swimming classes and despite having fun for the first few weeks - they then took them down the deep end and told them to jump in and they'd catch them. Silly thing to do....that did it for my son. He was petrified of going to swimming again - so every Thursday had a panic attack and then the panic attacks and meltdowns turned into every school day. We were only in term one of prep!
So its been a very long road with him missing lots of schooling along the way. I have had ridiculous meetings with various authorities who all now blur into one. I was told by one school psychologist that it was my relationship with my late father that was the problem! I hadn't even mentioned my father - who I hasten to add - I got along well with.
She said she was sure my upbringing had influenced what she now called 'soft parenting'. I never went back to her - even in those very early days - I knew that I wasn't doing something completely wrong in my parenting.

But it wears you down, doesn't it. All those looks and questions and yes the 'what is his diet? What time does he go to bed? Does he have a daily routine?" I got the impression they thought I was just saying 'oh that's fine dear - whatever you want to do - go ahead - I don't mind." So annoying when we are doing all we can to get our kids into gear and yet we can see that it isn't working!
The primary school had no idea how to handle me or my son - so they usually just ignored it all and never even rang me when he was away for days or weeks. It was terribly lonely - I'd watch the local kids walking to school as I sat by the window crying with my son! Awful times.
Some teachers were better than others. Some thought he was just misbehaving. The star systems we were told to try...all quite silly really. So like you - I read and read and studied as much as I could and found this forum : )

By the end of primary I was worried...so after psychologists that didn't help - we found a psychiatrist who was great. Can't even say what was incredibly different except, she understood. She said I was doing all I could and that it was really hard and she said the same to my son. For the first time - someone in the professional area was not making my son and I feel guilty. I was against medication - so young - so put it off until things didn't improve by the end of first year secondary. He started medication in January and it took about 2 months to really kick in and then it took him awhile to get his mind around the fact that he could face school now - and then this last term - we had six full weeks in a row - without any emails home to get picked up or refusing to go in. No more meltdowns in a morning this year at all. It has been a huge turn around from the meltdown days.

The school made me feel very small and a bad parent and I had some young teacher probably half my age - unmarried with no kids - trying to tell me that I had to be stricter parent! I went to a couple of those meetings - with my ex - and they all made me feel so bad I usually went home and cried. After visiting the psychiatrist again she gave me the confidence to fight back. She told me to go with my gut feeling on the whole thing as I was a good parent. So I changed - I decided I was in charge of the situation - not the school - that I had to inform them - as they had no idea - and that I would turn up looking so much more official than I had before.

Anyway - my story goes on and on ...I won't keep raving on! Incredible that our stories are all so similar and yet we are made to feel like we are the only ones - and therefore we are doing something wrong. I think it is a new thing - so they are floundering. Who knows what causes this ....one day they might know - but in the meantime - we as parents just have to inform others - and do what we can.
You really have your hands full but it sounds like your son is at least in a much better place in his mind and that is so vital, isn't it - as their mental health does come first. it is interesting that your son also now recognises that he felt he was thinking differently than the other kids - that is amazing really - that he has matured that much to reflect on how he is. This will surely help him in the future. The fact that he also asked how the other kids know what to say - means that he has observed that too.

My son had friends at primary school who were really good to him and two of them were popular kids. That didn't stop him from his anxiety though...which is also how I knew that he couldn't help it. They, unfortunately ,went to different schools and so he was quite lost at secondary for awhile and made the observation that he didn't quite fit into the groups. He said the popular kids were pains - the studious kids sat at the front - and the 'nerds' hovered round the edges ...and he didn't know if he fitted in with them or where? He kept saying ' perhaps I am a nerd!" The word grates on me...but he assures me that it is actually a more complementary word these days.
Now he just hangs out with a couple of boys who originally teased him for being away all the time. They seem to get on well but he refuses to go to their homes or to invite them home. He hates socialising with anyone outside of school. So we still have quite a bit of work to do - but one thing at a time.

Is your son able to make friends in the small groups you mention? Trouble is, as you say - they tend to have all kinds of issue -that don't really make it easy for your son who is in many ways the opposite.
I remember awhile back - someone on here posted from a Scandanavian country - where they have small group - just school refusers - who they work with outside the school system before trying to reintegrate. How wonderful is that! They seemed to really understand this issue.

I'm chatting on again - sorry for the long post!
Enjoy the sun at your end. We are in the middle of winter down here but you must have sent some sun this way as we are having some beautiful sunny days.
Take care - love to hear more from you about how things are - and hopefully you can help others on here too. Bit quite at the moment as it is the break - but more will come on later.
All the best
Linda

Hi Linda,

Thank you so much for your open and honest reply. It was fascinating to learn a bit of your journey and your reply gave me real mixed emotions! I felt so sad for all that you had to cope with and mad at how you and your son were treated and made to feel (I can't believe the swimming pool story!!) I felt so happy for the friendships your son had, his maturity and understanding, his ability to fight his anxiety and get back into class - I could go on! I also felt awe at your strength and determination!

I also realised that our stories mirrored so much which was why so many emotions were being evoked and it reminded me of how far we have come on. We really should 'pat ourselves on the back' more often!

It's funny, you just put your head down and get on with it when things are tough don't you? I was looking for a document the other day and came across some minutes from a rather horrible meeting i'd had a few years ago. I was really taken aback when I saw that the meeting had been on my youngest son's birthday. It hit me that where most parents would have just had the freedom to celebrate that day, I had the stress of a two hour meeting, being told I was facing prosecution if I didn't get my son into school. Reading it again, I was filled with a fresh sense of loss of my children's childhood. That said, it also made me feel proud of how far we'd come.

I'm so glad we both found someone who was supportive of our situation. For me it was a parent support organisation. The first time I heard our support worker agree with my son and I, I wept. It was such a relief when she explained that we weren't the only ones experiencing school refusal and anxiety and that we were just caught up in a system that had to work out what was going on. From the minute she came on board, our situation started to change.

My son doesn't mix with other teens in his small groups. His nervous system remains on 'high alert' when it comes to peers and he hasn't worked out a way to overcome this yet. He works one to one with his teachers. I have a meeting coming up in August with 10 others(!) to discuss the next steps for him.

Socially, he has one or two friends who he would meet but it would be very controlled. Either at a house or place he knows well and only with people he knows very well. He doesn't go out often and his anxiety is awful for him when he's out. He sees dangers everywhere and it's hard for him to relax. He is nearly six foot tall and he's a good looking boy - you would never guess that he is experiencing difficulties. Girls look at him, boys check him out as if they need to know who he is and people treat him older than his 14yrs - he finds it all quite overwhelming. To add to his stress, his little brother is the most extrovert person we know - he likes attention from everyone, all of the time and talks to everyone. It's no wonder my eldest prefers to stay at home!

I'm blethering on and on again!

I hope you and you're son are having a good day today.

Are you in Australia? or the States? Are most people on this site local to you?

Lovely to share experiences wherever you are,
Jo

Hi Jo,

It was good to read your post again - yes - same kind of stories and how awful you were spending such an awful meeting on your younger son's birthday. Being single parents it is hard enough as it is, without having to deal with difficult authorities and keep our kids on track.

I'm in Australia. Most of the people on this forum are in the UK. I have been on here so long now that I know more about the UK system than my own! THere are a couple who come on here from the US and there have been just a couple of others from Australia. There are so few networks to draw us all together. Simon who set this up comes from Scotland and I am just so glad he was able to do this for us. His daughter is at tertiary level now and doing ok - so there is light at the end of the tunnel. I was also very fortunate to meet another parent here in Australia at my son's soccer match a couple of years ago. He joined soccer as he was incredibly passionate about it - but it didn't last - too many expectations, unexpected challenges. But one day I was waiting for my ex husband to bring my son and they were late - I explained to the coach that he might be late due to his anxiety (and the other mum overheard me....turns out her eldest son had school refusal). We have supported each other ever since and it is just great to have someone who knows where I am coming from.

And yes we do need to pat ourselves on the back sometimes - somehow we do just keep going, don't we - even though it can be so draining. The first time I found this forum - I was crying so much I couldn't read the words! There were such lovely people here to help me and help me take those first steps forward. I can't believe I spent about 4 years before that - totally isolated from other parents. And it sounds like you have been quite isolated yourself? And what about family - have they understood? What about your ex husband - does he understand or does he blame you?

Is it Parent partnership that you are involved with? Sarah who used to come on here (her son is now doing so much better) and was very supportive used to encourage others to contact Parent Partnership as they were very supportive to her.

It is hard if your son doesn't have the friends. But he is lucky he has the looks - even though he might not think that way right now. This whole school refusal thing can hit any kid - no matter what their personality. But they all seem to be very sensitive, highly self conscious and also hard on themselves (don't want to give an answer in case it is wrong or don't want to stand out if they are right and get praise!). Did or does your son also get angry in his frustration? I have noticed that my son's anger outbursts are few and far between since being on medication. You mentioned sleep as an issue for not trying medication. My son also has sleep issues but the medication he takes does not make him sleep or awake (if that makes sense). It was supposed to make him sleepy - so we were told to take it at night (yeah I thought ....he might actually get at good night's sleep) but it made no difference : (

Maybe also your son will be able to trust others more when they/he is older? Does he actually get along better with older people? My son did for quite some time - it was his peers that he found difficult. Does your son have any on-line friends? Despite the down side of too much technology - it did get my son through some bad patches and he found at one point he was able to share his anxieties on some of the chat forums (attached to games) and found they were very sympathetic or were suffering something similar themselves. Now he even chats live with other kids - something I thought he would never have the courage to do. He won't let them see him - but just does the voice chat (and actually - I'm fine with that....still need to be careful on the net).

My son had a good second day today - I am very proud of him and it is such a relief when I pick him up and he smiles and says 'hi'. Things that other parents just take for granted. Fingers crossed he doesn't get sick as that always sets him back.
Hope you can stay around on the forum for some time as you have certainly experienced a lot too! Some of your stories and others on here bring back the emotional memories for me also -
It doesn't matter how far away we all are - we understand each other so well.
Take care Jo - and hope your son is enjoying the break in some way (and you are too : )
Linda xx

Hi Jo

I haven't been on this site for quite a while, but just popped in for a catch up!

My son is 13, he was diagnosed with high functioning autism/Aspergers at age 12. School refusal proper started after October half term after starting secondary school (Yr 7) we tried an alternative school after the Christmas, but ended up in same situation. Since then have been on the path of seeing CAMHS, getting ASD diagnosis, and the very long and arduous journey of getting a statement of SEN! My son finally got some home tuition from April this year after being out of school for over a year. We have tribunal coming up to try to agree school placement etc, but last week the LA have verbally agreed to our choice of an independent ASD specific school (having previously been insisting on mainstream without actually naming one)

So my son is now due to go back to school in September (he'll be Yr 9). I really need this to work this time .... feeling very scared.

We also have similar sleep issues to you. My son would rather be awake at night and sleep all day. His sleep pattern is constantly going out of control and it is so difficult to get any normality back in to it.

Sharon

Wishing you all the best, Sharon, for your son's return. What is his reaction to this?
Do you think he has built up some strategies to cope? Is the school going to have someone there that he can go to for support? Remember - if it does work - fantastic - if it doesn't - its ok too. You'll find other roads that you can go down and help your son move forward. Let us know how it goes.
Will be thinking of you
Linda

Thanks Linda.

I think he is happy about going back to school, although I am sure anxious. He always says he wants to go back to school and has been feeling very frustrated with being at home - because we've had to go through the SEN statementing process and then fighting with the local authority to get an appropriate school it has all taken sooo long.

His sleep is all over the place though, so that's one of my biggest worries with trying to get him back - he might want to do it, but in practice it will be hard.

It's a very small school, with small classes and lots of 1:1 help, they know what he's been through and how he needs to feel safe in school and needs to build up trust.

Hi Jo

I just wanted to say how alike our sons are - my son is 16 years old - like yours very tall and extremely good looking (even if I do say it myself!!) but has zero self confidence. He has never been able to make friends and his only social life is via his laptop. There are a couple of girls from his old school bus that he still keeps in touch with and they have asked him to go out next week but I don't think he will be able to manage it but I hope so much that he can. He suffers from severe anxiety and depression and is on meds for this. He didn't attend his last year at school and didn't take any of his GCSE's. It's funny how I can write this quite calmly now but a few weeks ago I was so distressed because he was leaving school with no qualifications after having been predicted a stash of A grades!! I guess my main priority is just to get him back out into the world again!

He has now become a vegetarian and is trying really hard to lose the little "puppy fat" that he is so self conscious about. He tells me that if he can lose some weight and feel better about himself he will feel more confident to go out. It is heartbreaking to think how low their self esteem is and to wonder what has made them feel like this. He was a normal happy little boy (albeit very quiet) and this seems to have developed when he became a teenager. I am very conscious now about his eating habits as well as I don't want this to escalate into an eating disorder!!

Hope things are OK for you and everyone else on the site at the moment - thinking of you all xx