school refusers


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Spiralling down again

HI everyone

Just when I thought we were on an upward curve...it seems to be all spiralling downhill again.
I know I spend time helping you all to see through the fog when it surrounds us - so its kind of ironic I am surrounded by it myself at the moment and can't see or think clearly about what steps to take or what to do.

Our situation is that my son is in his final year of schooling and has chosen to do this via an educational college that we have out here for those who are usually deciding to come back and do their final years of schooling - having missed them for whatever reason in the past. He is doing this part time - so only chose two subjects.

I am not sure if it is the fact that it is the final year - and the pressure is on already (not from me necessarily but perhaps the teachers or in fact, society in general) - or he doesn't want to be at this college (did try and get into another one) or as he says 'I am just feeling down'. He has now missed two weeks. He only attended for the first week (our year starts February). He doesn't want to talk about it - just gets angry with me. He doesn't have any ideas of what to do. He refuses to go to the doctor to talk over the medication. Refuses to go to the counsellor to talk it through. Refuses to email his teachers to ask for work to catch up on. He is in avoidance mode. He says he will go next week....but he has said that for two weeks. Once you miss two weeks of your final year... it is kind of harder to catch up.
I feel depressed myself as I hadn't expected this. I thought we were moving forward.
Perhaps it is just a set back. I am trying really hard not to spiral downhill myself but it is so hard, isn't it. I know you all go through this like I have in the past and I thought I was over this!! But when it comes back it just feels so hopeless again - just like the first time! Maybe not quite...perhaps I do need to keep things in perspective.
We are a long way ahead compared to where some of you are right now. And I want you to know that things do improve - as they have with my son. But it is easy to have a setback and depending on the situation - can mean just not moving forward at all.

Then I wonder perhaps my son should stop trying to do school. Perhaps he needs to just get a job. But what kind of job can he get I wonder as he hasn't finished school and he doesn't have a trade nor is he that way inclined...as in being practical.
When do I make this decision to say 'ok - lets stop' or keep encouraging...trying...
And when do I inform his father? He begs me not to tell his dad.
I guess I am just thinking out loud and thank you for anyone listening as it does help to come on here and know that you all know what it is like.

My heart goes out to you all stuck in the middle of full on school refusal. It is so difficult for others to understand what you go through. Such a shame that there isn't a miracle cure or some really good answers for us all and I am just so sorry that so many of you have to suffer without the support that should be readily available...and as for threatening to take you to court... that just makes my blood boil!

From trying to educate others (especially your child's school and teachers) you are, however, paving the way for others who follow. So do keep on trying to make others understand that this is a mental health issue and not a behaviour issue. There is more help now than 10 years ago - and that is from those who have been on the path trying to get the message out there about how debilitating this is for the child and the parents.
Hang in there - thanks for listening - I know from my past experience - a new door will open eventually for my son and for your children - but hard to see ahead sometimes, isn't it.
Linda

Re: Spiralling down again

Hi Linda
I have no pearls of wisdom but wanted to say it's the same with us, over 2 years now of non attending then back to full time then stopping again. Hope that light is turned back on for you again soon, take care of you
Mo

Re: Spiralling down again

Stay strong, Linda, because we have to.

Maybe you should tell his father - or give the ultimatum that you will? Might that be the incentive?

Your son must know that he is up against the clock? His school years are almost over. Is this something that you are able to discuss? (When he is able to listen)

This is a really hard time for you, after years of struggles and you - we - so want a good outcome for you both.

Not in a good place myself tonight as our youngest is going through a personal crisis and wants to stay at home 'to sort herself out'. I know she will work at home, but that's not the point, is it?

Thinking of you,

Simon

Re: Spiralling down again

Thanks Mo and Simon,
It helps to know you understand.
Linda

Re: Spiralling down again

I really have nothing to add Linda,as you are a massive rock for me and many others on here at the moment.
I'm glad you know we are here for you too.
Sounds a really tough time for all involved at the moment,but like Simon and mo says we understand and please stay strong.You are an amazing mum and such a caring lovely lady to spend so much of your time helping us too,even when you yourself are having a tough time.
Thank you again Linda,chin up x

Kelly.

Re: Spiralling down again

Hi Linda

New to this forum, so I don't know your full story but your post rang similarities in circumstance.

My daughter is only 14 and I have given serious consideration to giving up on school and her working. With the school telling me they cant cope with her - I asked them the question what should I do, keep her at home? They replied they did not know what I should do !! Pushed between CAMHS / SCHOOL / DOCTOR yet noone has a solution.

My daughter had a fantastic little part time eve/WE job (from a friend) for a short time over Christmas in a restaurant , which she loved and it gave her independence which I sadly had to stop as the hours were late in evening and affected sleep / attendance.

I am just now going through the process of trying to get her a work permit to work in a small local cafe (again another friend of a friend) she completed a free 2 hour trial and they were very impressed with how mature she was and polite for her age. I am hoping that the school will grant the permit (as attendance must be about 30% at present) which could affect this. My daughter is money hungry so she can buy the make up brands she loves and make her feel good about herself.

I just wondered if your son had a part time job he enjoyed, and an independent income it might inspire him to move forward with continued education and form life goals. Having a job is brilliant for self esteem and it definitely improved my daughters outlook on life.

K x

Re: Spiralling down again

Thanks Karen and Kelly

My son was late today but travelled on the train to the city but then sent me a text to say he just couldn't face go into the class. So another week...
I have told him he has to make a decision, either do year 12 and get doing the work at home (hasn't done any) or quit and do it full time next year (get part time job this year) or forget it altogether and try and get into university or college as a mature age student.
I am just incredibly frustrated as he keeps saying it is his choice, decision, call etc and then falls completely into avoidance mode and leaves us both hanging mid air, not knowing what will happen. I am not sure, with his anxiety, if he is actually capable of such a big decision. I managed to get in contact with his teachers and one has given him work to do to catch up and six hours after returning home and he hasn't even read her email.
Unfortunately this avoidance behaviour has been building and building over the years and now just seems to run the whole show.
He refuses to see a counsellor or psychologist, refuses to discuss medication with the doctor and refused to see the school support worker.
Perhaps this is his way of saying he can't do the school thing any more. It is sad as he is a bright kid and capable of doing some terrific work. Anxiety and depression are just awful things.
He seems to be in a better place than he was a few years ago and has interests in film and comedy and music...but I think not having friends has made the recovery jusf so much harder.

I think if any of you can try and get your son/ daughter to keep in contact with their friends, even if just on line, it is a vital step on how well they move forward. When they start to recover, they have peer support and peer interaction. If they loose that, like my son did, then it is a lonely road for them and I think it just drags them down again. My son would have been better to have remained at his original school, had we had the support. Changing schools has meant the loss of friends and trying to make new ones when you have social anxiety becomes impossible.
Keeping up interests outside school is vital. This is the only thing keeping my son on some kind of track right now. Don't let school become the only focus in your lives.
We are hanging in there but only by a thread right now!!
I will let you know what decisions are made as the week progresses. Sorry I don't have the energy to offer as much support to you all right now, but am so glad you understand. Thanks
Linda

Re: Spiralling down again

Hi Linda and all,

Sorry to here your back to the battlefield again ....


Yet another day of son hiding under bed, yet another battle. So frustrating. I feel all your pain it's so tiring. You think maybe this week but no the same old from week to week. Education department saying CAMHS need to deal with it. CAMHS saying need education to deal .... if they can't d decide what hope do I have.

At least we can rant away on here.

Positive thoughts to all x

Re: Spiralling down again

Thanks.
You poor thing...I know how you feel. Just so draining and then we have to try again next day!!
We rely on others for support and if cahms and the education dept can't get their act together for you, they are no help at all.
Can you get any private help?

Your poor son must be sick of hiding under the bed. Has he been diagnosed by cahms? They should be having more input but seems they do vary from area to area. Have you tried getting in touch with parent partnership?
Hang in there...we're all on this road together!
Linda

Re: Spiralling down again

Kelly,
Thanks for your kind and positive words. Reading that helps 😊
It is a bumpy road we are all on. Mine got a lot smoother there for awhile...
Hope you are ok too?
Linda

Re: Spiralling down again

Hi everyone

Just an update. I made a decision yesterday - to stop school. You might think my son jumped up and down with glee - but as you know - anxiety and depression don't work that way - so in fact - he says he hasn't made up his mind yet.
It does kind of have to come from him - but if I left it totally up to him - we would be wallowing around in the same downward spiral in weeks to come - with even more self esteem lost along the way and me even more stressed.

To me- by making a definite decision - suddenly a great weight lifted off my shoulders. Days before that I felt really quite terrible. I would like to hope that the weight can then slowly lift off my son's shoulders.
I have explained to him this is not a failure of any kind - but just a face up to reality - that this year isn't happening in the way he thought it might, for whatever reason.

I want him to think of a part time job and also to take guitar lessons (as he had shown interest in this) and have been trying to be creative in my mind to think how this might work.
Then if he can get his self esteem back this year - he might be able to tackle his final year of schooling next year - or just forget about it and do other things and wait until he is a mature age student and can perhaps get into a tertiary course that he wants to do that way.

I just hope that this doesn't mean he becomes totally housebound and completely hits rock bottom! I can't know that - but possibly the thought of maybe trying to get to school, has actually helped him in a strange kind of way, to keep some focus in his life.

I have to see it as positive that he made it this far in his schooling. It has been 11 years of this!
We still have a good relationship despite sometimes closing down and the meltdowns! (from both of us) - and I haven't completely fallen off the rails!
Thanks mostly to this forum for helping me way back when it was in full force!! I know just how so many of you feel when you come on here - I remember not being able to see the screen for my tears! But there was always someone who had some wise words or mainly, just 'got it'.

I hope I can be here for any of you going through that early pain. It does get better - but it can get pretty wobbly too! And even though I feel much more positive now - I might fall down again next week! That is the nature of us all being carers to a teenager/child with anxiety and depression. My words of advice I keep giving, however, are the ones that have in the long run, kept us on some kind of track and perhaps helped my son to not be in such a bad place in his mind compared to a few years back. I have thought of ten things that helped us and might just help you.
That is -

1) ACCEPTANCE:YOU Embrace your child where they are now and accept it is a mental health issue (our acceptance is the first step to healing for both our children and ourselves). If possible - refrain from mentioning school for some time and try and encourage non school pursuits (they will still be there later even if school isn't).

2) ACCEPTANCE: Your child: Help your child to accept they have a mental health issue - that can be helped - and counselling and/or medication is important to try. It is NOT a behaviour issue. Try and find some well known people who have an anxiety disorder or depression (many comedians for example) but are managing.

3) NO BODY's FAULT: It is not their fault and it is not your fault (someone on here told me that years ago)

4) EDUCATE OTHERS: Educate your school/teachers - they don't know what it is like - you are the expert. Dress up at meetings and carry a black folder (even if you never open it) with notes and copies of emails you have taken along the journey (Simon's excellent idea). Ask what they will do for you - don't wait for them to start on the negative. Acknowledge there is an issue and the issue is not anyone's fault and acknowledge the teachers are doing all they can (even if they are not). It made the meetings I attended turn around completely.

5) GO FOR A DRIVE: take your son/daughter for drives (someone on here suggested and it worked for us) even at night and they can stay in the car- but it gets them out of the house. We started with night drives, then day drives, then down to the supermarket whilst he stayed in the car and so on. Use it to chat about life (NOT SCHOOL) or just to listen to their music (not yours : )

6) TRAVEL WITH SOMEONE ELSE TO SCHOOL: See if early on you can get your son/daughter to travel to school with a friend - someone in their class preferably. It will keep them with some attendance for some of the time. A family member taking them can also help for some of the time.

7)SMALL STEPS: and from someone on here years ago I think it was - 'small steps are all good'. No matter how small - getting up slightly earlier, going outside if they haven't been out for weeks, helping you cook dinner or just getting the ingredients out, cooking if it helps, feeding the pet or just simply trying to get to school but not getting there (the trying was a terrific small step), or engaging with someone or something...no matter how small or insignificant to us.

8) MAKE A DECISION: (and non are right or wrong) - will I continue to push? -or will I home school or find an alternative of some kind? BUT - you must address the mental health issue as well - otherwise the health issue will stay with them.

9) SUPPORT: You need support. Use the forum or other sites, ask your doctor about medication, try mindfulness for you (and your child) as living in the moment does ease the pain, seek counselling yourself. Remember YOU ARE NOT ALONE!

10 ) TREAT YOU! Do things for yourself - nice things - keep up a hobby - meet with friends who understand for a coffee - our strength is vital on the journey and can help the steps, no matter how small, to keep on happening. Our positive experiences can not only gives us strength to tackle the next day - but can help the atmosphere in the home.

I hope some of this helps. But we are all individuals and so are our kids - so what works for one might not work for all - but I know I found snippets of support on this forum that I tried and it did work and the ten above definitely offered some help forward.
I am hoping our week is not too flat - and that something good will come out of my decision.
Take care everyone -and sending hugs if you are feeling down today.
Linda xx

Re: Spiralling down again

Linda,

I have three children - 17, 15 and 12 and although I wouldn't swap them for the World, they are all problematic. It's my 15 year old girl who is school refusing in earnest and my 12 year old boy who used to but is now statemented for ASD and attends an SRB base. My 17 year old boy school-refused on and off and it was a miracle that he went in for his GCSEs last year. He is at Music College now but has no drive or enjoyment, he is depressed and on anti-depressants and he threatens suicide. Sometimes, I feel overwhelmed by it all, and wonder how my husband and I have managed to bring up 100% of our children like this. When you first have them, you sort of think that love and a sense of humour will counter anything, don't you? But the one thing I have got better at over time is realising that it is one step forward, two steps back. Setbacks happen and you just have to ride them out.

Thanks for reminding us :)

Best,

B

Re: Spiralling down again

Hi B

You really do have it tough! I am sure you often wonder...why? And I can't help asking the same question when so many of us seem to have kids that are struggling in this way. My son was a happy, social and confident toddler. I often wonder what changed One day someone will figure it out, but meanwhile...we will all just have to work with what we have and do our best. And it sounds like you are doing your very best for all your kids.
I wonder if your son just kind of got burnt out with the effort he had to put in to attend school? I think that is how my son feels.
Does your son have any friends? My son no longer has friends (had good friends at primary school but they went to different schools and lost touch) and I think that makes attending anywhere difficult.

Thanks for reading my post. I have to remind myself of those ideas sometimes.

Is your son keeping up with the attendance and the work,or is that falling by the wayside as well? Hard to be motivated when depressed. Has he been on this medication for long? Has he tried different ones? My son's first medication didn't do much but this new one has helped, but obviously not completely.

Look after yourself.
Linda xx

Re: Spiralling down again


Hello Linda,

On the other hand, the three of them get on like a house on fire and I imagine there are some parents who would kill to be able to say that ;)

My son was not sociable as a toddler. I knew quite early on that he had issues. He was in a world of his own, would 'scan' Lego bricks from one side of his face to the other for hours at a time and cry when you picked him up to comfort him, until you put him down when he comforted himself. But I thought he was coping because he got better at cuddling and because he was intelligent and we didn't yet have experience, we didn't get him checked out when we ought to have done because we thought he was adapting OK.

I am sorry your son doesn't have any friends. It feels worrying, I know, it's probably my biggest concern for all three of mine. My son is the DM of an unofficial role playing gaming group so he has a couple whom he sees every now and then. I cling to that. Apart from that, no, he never goes out or has any sort of social life.

His attendance is patchy. I believe his biggest issue is his lack of belief in a future. He also has a very closed mind set and unusual fears - he avoids crossing roads and refuses to learn to drive. Some of that is down to his issues but I must say that I believe children today have a very difficult world to grow up in, emotionally speaking - that it is far harder for a child with sensitivities or problems today to emerge unscathed than it was when I was at school.

He has been on citalopram for two months - he was on Fluoxetine before that but he came up in hives - and he says it has made no difference but I believe it has made a little. Luckily, he will let me go into the Doctor with him if I walk him down and get him in the right mood first. I find that one of the biggest issues is that as soon as he turned 16, he could refuse my input if he wanted so I have to be quite careful!

I hope things improve for you. It's hard, I know. But like we said, you win some, you lose some. Yesterday, I went to my daughter's school, ready for a showdown if necessary, and they took the wind out of my sails. They have agreed to pay for her to go twice a week to a special school and also to do everything they can to speed up her assessment process. Roll on the up-sides for us all :)

Best,

B

Re: Spiralling down again

Hi B

That is a really good to hear, and glad you have some positives in the difficult times.
Do you think your son might have aspergers? What instruments/s does he play?
My son was on fluvoxamine and now on sertraline.
I just asked my son again today about driving lessons (which I thought might be good if he is not at school) but he says he never wants to drive....so similar to your son. My son says it has absolutley nothing to do with anxiety, but why the aversion then.
I think my son sometimes mixes up something he thinks he just doesn't like when it is really the anxiety speaking.
I do hope your son feels a bit more connected at some stage soon. And good luck for your daughter, your school sounds quite supportive. Let us know how things go.
Linda

Re: Spiralling down again

Hi Linda

Just wanted to say sorry that things haven't been going so well for you and your son. My son is getting assessed for aspergers now so I think he will get more help if the result comes out positive. Maybe a job for your son would boost his confidence and he would be around people as well. I really hope things work out for him.

I am resigned to the fact now that school and qualifcations may not be the right thing for my son because of the pressure it causes him...I will just be happy if he gets a shop job at the end of the day..even if its not what I had hoped for him.

Fi

Re: Spiralling down again

Hi Fi

Thanks for your comments re my son and all the best for your son. Have you always suspected Aspergers? You have wise words - we all have certain expectations of our kids as they grow but they do need to alter and change with our kid's needs.

My son has unfortunately been taking - 'not going to school' -as 'I don't have to do anything' and so is going to bed really really late and sleeping in most of the day. So no chance of getting a job yet. He also doesn't want a job that involves serving customers, such as local supermarket. I am encouraging him to get guitar lessons first as that might get him out of the house at least and give him some confidence and self esteem. He has been teaching himself and is very good - but needs to connect with others. His dad was not too pleased at all when we hadn't told him that there was no going back to school and is really really set on my son doing his final year next year. I hope he does too - but realistically - I have plan B in the back of my mind in case it doesn't work out - and that is to get a job of some kind. My son is of an age now, however, where he wants to be independent, but because of the anxiety, is unable to be completely independent. I am not sure what the balance is - but I just want him to do something, connect with others and be happy.

Let us know how the tests go and what happens from here on?
Take care
Linda xx


Re: Spiralling down again

Hi! I haven't been on here for a while but have been reading the posts. I'm sorry to hear your struggling with your son, we are still battling along. Remember my post 15 year old son out of school nearly a year?

Unfortunately my son didn't go back to school, it has took a long time for him to get back to himself with the help of 6 months on fluroxetine. He was in a full on state of anxiety for most of the 2 years leading up to him completely not going to school. Then it took another 6 months to get help from Cahms due to long waiting lists.

He has been tutored at home since last May, which I never wanted for him long term, because of the fact he has now lost touch with his school friends. He still has one friend who comes round, but very infrequent, they have known each other a long time, he used to live on our street.
Also his older brother comes round.

My son is doing Maths, English & an IT course, the IT he is very good at & is doing an exam next week at home. Unfortunately he was messed about with the IT tutoring, a new guy started home tutoring but was constantly cancelling sessions and my son was ready to give up. I had to report him and a new tutor was sent to help get my son to exam standard. It's not fair that our children been through this, they shouldn't be messed about as well. The new tutor is really good though and my son likes him.

We have been having regular meetings at the local Connexions centre to discuss his next step when school finishes in May. He met one local training provider last month, I think k it was a bit overwhelming for him. He didn't like it. We had an appointment the other day with another, but I couldn't get him out of the car. He is struggling with the fact that he has no friends to go with and why would these places want him when he hasn't been in school. Plus he will not know anybody. We have another appointment next week to try again. You see the fact is now hr feeling a lot better in himself (he came off the fluoxetine by his choice about 5 weeks ago), he is sick of being at home alone all the time and wants somewhere to go but obviously is scared.

He still has a low level of anxiety, he still has sleepless nights worrying about everything, he was doing CBT therapy but he decided he wanted to stop it along with the medication. Most of the therapy he had already done on his own anyway like getting out of the house and his cousins birthdays were both last month, they were 3 & 13. He made himself go to the family celebrations, he had not been to my sister house for over a year!! So that was a major a accomplishment!!

I think he could do with more CBT to deal with his thought processes that cause him stress, but you can't force them can you!

I just want him to get back out there and do something he likes and make new friends. He has always been very sociable as a child and I hate seeing him on his own all the time.

Re: Spiralling down again

Hi Tracy

I do hope your son goes ok with the exam coming up. And starts to find his way forward into his 'new' world. I think the safety of home makes it hard for them to take steps out into the real world. My son is in a similar position.
Do you think it was the time for him to come off the medication or do you think it might have helped the transition to what he does next? Sometimes people come off their medication because they are feeling better but forget that they are feeling better because of the medication. Its a tough one really.
And the great thing is that yiur son has been doing some subjecfs and is connecting with the tutors. And also an infrequent friend is better than no friends. It is so hard for them without their peers to be there when they do new things,isn't it. If they had a few friends, I think those steps would be easier. Vicious circle really. Let us know how your son goes.

My son still hasn't taken steps to think about a job. So I have asked him to try guitar lessons first. He is hanging back on that one too. He says he just doesn't feel like doing anything. I know we are both exhausted but I know I can't just let him do nothing for much longer or he won't be able to take steps to get out again. But how do I get him to make some decisons? He seems caught up in wanting to control things himself, but unable to make decisons or take steps. So then I have to start pushing and wonder if I need to actually choose the music school and the teacher and he just choose what day and time. His avoidance behaviour is very strong. His dad sees all doom and gloom and predicts he won't do anything with his life!! He is pushing him all the time to commit to doing his final year of schooling at a particular school next year and do it full time. I suspect this is just making my son avoid everything even more as from his perspective he is not ready and the thought of doing that next year makes him feel ill. I am not mentioning school as I think my son needs a complete break.
I just wish his dad was supportive of what I try to do instead of believing he is the only one who knows what is best. It creates tension that I could do without!

Take care Tracy, you are doing all you can and sounds like your son is really trying. Let us know how he progresses. I see many similaritie with my own son...lets hope they gain some courage to face these new steps in their lives.
All the best to everyone else too....you are all doing a good job in very trying circumstances. Hang in there!!
Linda xx

Re: Spiralling down again

Hi everyone,

My son isn't getting better and now refuses to have any counselling and is in denial and avoidance mode. At 17 and not going to school or working....then motivation to do anything has evaporated. He often stays in bed all day, only getting up in time for dinner. He tells me to 'stop going on about it' when I talk about his health, either physical or mental. He is worse now that our cold weather has started down here (does anyone else notice their kids are worse in winter?)

He refused to write or help write a resume and cover letter for any part time jobs. I suspect this is becuase he just doesn't want a job because he feels so bad. So I wrote it and managed to get him, with much trauma, to drop it in to a supermarket for after hours packing. But we have heard nothing. We have had doctor's appointments but when the time comes he refuses to then attend.
His father keeps going on about how he should go to a college next year to do his final year of schooling and whilst it would be good, my son is in no place to face any kind of schooling at the moment.
So our road hasn't turned a corner yet and after all these years I have to admit that hope seems even further away. What do we do if our son/daughter won't seek or accept help? I am as usual just trying to wait patiently and keep trying to talk things through with him. Any other ideas much appreciated....hope you are all hanging in there.
Linda

Re: Spiralling down again

Sorry to take so long to respond. It has not been all sweetness and light here either!

We seem to get over one hurdle, and then another is just ahead. We are just starting the new school year (it is a Scottish thing to do that at this time of the year)with all the incumbent anxieties.

Your son has reached a point where the support that you give him is going to be different from the support you had to provide in the past. I think you both have to work out how that is going to work. It is important that you have time for you, and not spend your time rushing about sorting him out.

Here in Scotland, our children are no longer our children when they reach 16, so in our case we cannot discuss our daughter with the doctor and only have limited influence in the school. The inference is that the child - sorry, young person - now has responsibility for themselves.

But of course, we still need to be there for them.

No 1 daughter, whose is responsible for this sites existence, is home so she can vote in tomorrow's election (and pick up the car!), but also to get help with a job application. There was a time when we thought that this just would not happen. I think the key challenge that she set for herself came when I suggested that she would not be able to live independently, and she was determined that she would. And applying for jobs is part of that.

Of course, I do not know your son, but I would say, on balance, yes, he should go for that final college year. But if not, he needs to know he has to start making his own way. Some how, he has to be in a position where he can make that decision himself.

Am I being hard? But I am thinking that it is time you had your life too.

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