My boy is looking good and doing well, and I'm hoping to eventually stand him at stud assuming he passes his clearances. I've been talking to other stud owners, and besides the usual checking the bitch's clearances, they are also telling me to screen the bitch owner as well. More than one person told me that if the bitch owner didn't breed the bitch, I should talk to the breeder of the bitch to make sure that I'm entering into a contract with someone who is reputable. And to talk to other stud owners that have done business with the bitch owner in the past.

I know that there are some looneys out there, but are they really that common? What else does a stud owner need to investigate before agreeing to a breeding?

I investigate how many litters they breed who they sell their puppies to. I do not provide stud service to bitch owners that sell to other breeders, advertise on their website that they accept visa and mastercard for puppies, sell puppies overseas, sell to brokers, or raise them in a way that I do not approve of. Pretty tough rules but these are my bloodlines to protect.

Let prospective bitch owners know he is available "To approved bitches only." You will need to make sure a bitch has all clearances, a decent pedigree at the least and what the intentions of the bitch owner is with a litter sired by your stud dog. There are some people out there breeding not to keep from the litter instead just to try to make some money off a litter with the high demand currently.

You would need a stud contract and alot more but I would wait until your dog passes his clearances and Optigen status if needed before worrying about it (I am not being mean but one never knows until that is all done unles you did prelims and have a good idea.) Good luck with your future endeavors with him in the ring and possibly at stud.

Oh what a fantastic topic. After standing a stud dog for a couple of years now, here are a couple of things I will be adding to my stud contract, 1: any resulting puppies are not to be sold in a pet shop. Believe me it does happen and not sure how I would implement this one 2: No puppies from this mating are to be exported. But heres a question for all you stud dog owners who are happy to ship overseas, and lets face it most would or do if asked by a bitch owner in another country. How do you vet the bitch that your boy is going to be used over. Epilepsy is the one problem that comes to mind, I have, to date never to my knowledge bred an epileptic and don't want to, I do know some lines to be avoided, but how do you as a stud dog owner get all the information needed.

All very good ideas and valid to maintain the breed. HOW DO YOU "POLICE" the pet shop scenario for instance?

For that matter how do we police anything we put into a contract? How do we inforce said contract? Are you going to take someone to court because of this?

A contract is only as valid as the people who sign it. If you cannot trust them without a signature, you surely cannot trust them with a signature.

Be realistic; make sure the bitch has her clearances and AKC registration. After that, it is really going to be how well you know the bitch owner.

For that matter, have them sign a contract stating they will not bad mouth the stud dog, his owners, breeders, Sire, Dam, GrandSIre, GrandDam and any of his siblings, offspring or any other possible iteration. Because at the end of the day, that is what happens.

Have incredible scrutiny about whom you let breed to your boy. It is far more involved than you think.

GOOD LUCK and best wishes.

someone in my club who keeps males puts in her contract that puppies sold to pet homes must be sold on limited registrations. I thought that was a good idea, but again, how enforcable is it?/

There are bitch owners out there who talk the talk and don't walk the walk. They get all the right clearances (but ask for the certificates and check the OFA database to be sure) but they don't think twice about violating a contract.

A quick e-mail to the breeder(s) of any bitch(es) they own, plus owners of any stud dog that they have used. "Hi, so-and-so wants to breed the bitch Lucky Lady to my stud Handsome Man. What do you think?" You'll find out about anything unethical, or you'll get glowing reviews. Good info either way.

This minority of wolves in sheeps clothing has already burned bridges with experienced stud owners and a new stud owner is an easy mark.

Good luck with your boy.

Here is the best one yet I do the litter registration all the papers come to me I do the AKC paper work and make sure all the file is completed properly on the litter. I then send the Dam owner copies of all for there file. I mail out the AKC registrations to the new puppy buyers all go on limited reg. This way I control this. No one gets an open one except the owner of the Dam if she keeps one. I am protecting the pups and the breed all the way. I refuse to let them go any other way if they want to use my stud dogs. So If they want my sires they have to agree to this and I also give a heath guarantee to her for the pups including my sires backing.
No problems here yet and I am sure there will not be. Sure it takes time but I would rather protect the litter then the buyer and also a Dam owner I have no former acquaintance's with.

I'd also recommend that you talk to other people in their club, just to get a little background. I am thinking of one case in particular that I heard about through rescue. A woman managed to talk some decent breeders into using their dogs (she seems to have fooled a lot of people), sold at least one litter several times over, never delivered the pups, fled across the country with her dogs in tow, and was eventually apprehended for "borrowing" a friend's vehicle without permission. I was told that some of the dogs went into rescue and a couple of breeders whose dogs had been used came down and took some of the dogs back. I talked with a woman who adopted one of the labs, and she says her girl has a very nice pedigree. She probably isn't more than 8 or 9 years old, so this isn't ancient history. This poor girl had very little socialization and spent most of her life in a crate. There are some unstable people out there, and there are some devious people out there. Talk to someone who knows the bitch owner personally. You can't be too careful.

What is the problem of exporting puppies? In many countries the requirements for registering and breeding are much tougher than here in the US.
Explain your thoughts Jan.

I would be happy to answer that. First of all in many Asain countries dog meat is very desirable on the dinner table. You may sell a dog over there to someone who you feel will be a good breeder but who knows where that dog's get will end up. I know a breeder handler who had some dogs she was showing for a big breeder in Japan. I was told he keeps over 100 labradors on 1 acre. Just imagine how much room they have to exercise. Another friend sent a dog to South America on a co-ownership with a big name breeder for them to breed to their bitches and gain a championship in that country. When he came back he was in terrible condition. The list goes on and on. Bottom line is the dogs are more important to me than the big bucks they pay for our dogs.

I'm sorry but you cannot paint all countries with the same wide brush. If folks in the European and Scandinavian countries looked as the US as a land of pet shops and very permissive breeding practices our breed would not be as blessed as it is today.
Equating Europe with China is just not rational!

This is a real pet peeve for me, what is the purpose of breeding your dogs if not to improve the breed and how are you improving the breed if you are not selling your pups to other reputable breeders to improve their bloodlines? And where did you get your "lines" from? Wasn't it from someone else that was willing to let you continue on with "thier" lines? Come on people, you cannot control what happens to the pups your dog produces and you really have no right to do so anyway, the only thing you can do is to be careful about who you let use your studs, make sure they are doing it for the right reason and have the interest of the breed at heart.
Makes me sick how some want CONTROL, CONTROL, CONTROL over everything!

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I investigate how many litters they breed who they sell their puppies to. I do not provide stud service to bitch owners that sell to other breeders, advertise on their website that they accept visa and mastercard for puppies, sell puppies overseas, sell to brokers, or raise them in a way that I do not approve of. Pretty tough rules but these are my bloodlines to protect.

I went to a puppy mill (USDA breeder, suspended from AKC and was registering Continental Kennel Club) posing as a buyer. His bitches were off in a wooded area behind a barn and I asked to see them. He didn't like it but agreed to show them to me. They were all above average - much nicer than his home bred stud he was using. I asked to see the Dams' pedigrees. At first he refused but relented and dug them out. ALL of his bitches were out of CHAMPION, WELL KNOWN stud dogs. One bitch was a daughter of one of my own males who I had sold as a pup that had become a Champion. ALL of his bitches were purchased from the newspaper from people breeding the family pet. I am certain he did not tell the selling families who he was and what he did for a living.

I do not like standing my boys to people I don't know. But if someone has a nice bitch, has titled in some AKC event, is breeding to compete and has all the clearances, I will do the breeding. BUT they agree to sell on spay/neuters with Limited to anyone not willing to do the same. Then I refer, refer, refer until the puppies are placed in well screened homes.

It doesn't stop the unhappy endings but it reduces them.

What makes the breeder of a b_ _ _ _ owned by another breeder a more reliable and ethical source than the bitch owner him/herself? As a breeder and owner of dogs bred by me and dogs bred by others, I would prefer that a stud owner take the time to get to know me and the way I breed, raise, and place my dogs, and also of the involvement of my dogs in various AKC and other activities, than to depend on a rubber stamp from someone that I may have bought a dog from to decide whether or not to breed to my girl.

Why would I sell a perfectly beautiful puppy to a breeder who sticks them in a kennel in all sorts of weather with little human contact, then breeds the crap out of them and when they have had their 4th litter dumps them. For sale 8 year old retired brood bitch. Not house trained, socialized, or leash broken. Or to a breeder who decided they don't like her earset or something else about her and dump her to another breeder buddy who in turn breeds her anyway and sells the puppies to other breeders. Weather or not you like it I don't really care. I will sell to a nice pet/show home on a co-ownership and teach them how to do it Right.

then you will never be a successful breeder if you can't cull the ones that don't pan out

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Why would I sell a perfectly beautiful puppy to a breeder who sticks them in a kennel in all sorts of weather with little human contact, then breeds the crap out of them and when they have had their 4th litter dumps them. For sale 8 year old retired brood bitch. Not house trained, socialized, or leash broken. Or to a breeder who decided they don't like her earset or something else about her and dump her to another breeder buddy who in turn breeds her anyway and sells the puppies to other breeders. Weather or not you like it I don't really care. I will sell to a nice pet/show home on a co-ownership and teach them how to do it Right.

Culling dogs what do you mean? Please tell me I mis-understood.

By culling I meant to place the ones that don't turn out good specimens of the breed in good loving homes... hope that answers your question. I did not mean to put them down, just to not keep them in your breeding program.

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Culling dogs what do you mean? Please tell me I mis-understood.

Back to your question, look at the person web page if they have one. How many litters do they have ? Do the pedigrees work with yours and not something that will show up and your dog blamed for it later. Does the female have her clearances. Will the owner of the female sell the pups on AKC Limited. The pups will represent your kennel also. Be selective. Be fair. Has your dog been cleared of all the health issues ? It is a responsibility.