As I look at pedigrees for possible studs, I was wondering how close is too close for line breeding? I know a nice boy who has the lines on the sire's side that I like, that would be a nice line breeding back into my girl, but they both have the same dam, so is that actually inbreeding?

An example of inbreeding is mother to son or brother to sister. Inbreeding may intensify physical faults that are easily recognized or, they may amplify unapparent personality traits.Carefully planned inbreeding should be left to experienced breeders with extensive genetic knowlege of their dogs lineage. JMO

Cheers!

Are you saying that your girl and the stud you like are half brother and sister? If so, I would say that's too close for me. We recently had one of our girls come back with a bad hip when we took her in for prelims. Her breeder honored his guarantee and offered us a replacement pup. But the litter he had on the ground at the time was a line breeding where the sire and dam were half brother and sister. I didn't want one of those pups, that was just too close for my comfort level. But I'd be interested to hear others thoughts on this.

Yes, the male I am research is the half sibling of my bitch. Same mother.

I do know what typical in-breeding is (mom/son etc) and why it's not done.

What I am trying to find out is the 'expert' opinion on a half sibling breeding.

BTW-this IS for research purposes only, so no flames etc.

I would think you could find another dog from the same pedigree. Are both the dogs you are talking about old enough for the problems to have shown up yet ? Remembering that could mean older than 3 years. Optigen only catch PRA. There are other eye problems and seizures show up later most of the time. Thats what is nice about older proven dogs, that have not had anything show up in offsprings or themselves. Think I would look some more.

Jen,
Is there a nice uncle in the pedigree somewhere? Uncle to niece make very nice linebreedings, if you know the lines well enough. Isn't stud shopping fun? I love all the future possibilities.

To me it would have to be a tremendous pedigree to breed that closely. The bitch who is the mother of your bitch and the stud dog would have to be a proven brood bitch of several multiple specialty winners that are old enough for clearances and she must herself be drop dead beautiful and from a sound line. Basically for a breeding that close the dog that is doubled upon would have to be outstanding in every way. Also with all the great stud dogs out there why choose one that is out of the same dam as your bitch? There are plenty to choose from. Be smart and look to see what your bitch lacks and try to improve and that will be done moreso with an outcross.

I would say if the mother of your bitch who is also the mother of this stud dog is fantastic then I would certainly do it. Make sure you know what you are doubling up on. There have been some fantastic dogs that were the result of half brother-sister breedings, such as Ch Mijan's Arrogant Amanda, Ch Springharbor Stand By Me and his littermates Ch Springharbor Stout Hearted Man and Ch Springharbor Sass O'Tabatha just to name a few. Just do your homework.
Traci

The best Borzoi I ever produced were half sillings. Same sire, but the dams were from totally different lines. I would say that 75% of the pups were show quality. Many did finish their CH and a couple went as far as BIS.

The problem is that you you have so many inhereted problems with Labs, so you really have a lot of homework to do. If everything looks ok, I would try it. The pups are going to be drop dead gorgeous or ugly. There will be no mediocre pups.

I like to play the long shot, so if everything looked good, I would do it. How are you going to know if you don't try?

Thanks for the input. It's really not a breeding I am considering, but I was wondering what the general consensus was. The possible stud in question has passed all clearances including Optigen, so that's not an issue. It's interesting because the half siblings are very consistent to one another (I fooled some people who know my girl by showing them HIS photo), so I am thinking that "look" is brought in from the dam's side. So I suppose there would be a chance of exaggerating the faults.

All the dogs that I seriously like and would really want to use are all outcrossings... Or really FAR back line breedings....

I had someone lined up but since my bitch came into heat before I could do the clearances, I figured why not SHOP around some more.

Read Mary R Williams Reaching for the Stars and then know your lines and know your comfort level. This is an area where one size does not fit all.