What are breeders looking for when evaluating a puppy and they feel right between the shoulders? TY

Width between shoulders and layback...

I've always wondered this as well...What exactly are you looking for when you say "width between shoulders"? Is close better and why or why not?

close is not better, nor is farther apart.
You want just the right amount between them so that they move freely but not to wide up front.
Maybe someone else can explain better??

I highly recommend you pick up the "Puppy Puzzle" video by Pat Hastings. She has also written a couple of very informative books on structure. Here is the link: www.dogfolk.com. I find these to be extremely helpful when evaluating litters.

Shelley

I agree- I have heard to look for shoulder 'lay back' and 'lay on'. What is the correct width for 'lay on' is say an 8 week old lab puppy. I have never had this question answered reasonably when I have asked it. AND I have watched puppy puzzle about 8 times...

This is just my opinion and how I understood the way to feel shoulders by the book and video and watching other breeders. I don't think it so much the distance between the actual blades, but rather how far the shoulders sit back. Then you take the palm of your hand and place it where the shoulders are and your thumb should sit at a 90 degree angle. You need to also check the prosternum. If the prosternum is too high the shoulders are out of place. You should be able to draw an imaginary line from the prosternum to the ribs. When I look at my puppies, I have them stacked in front of a mirror. I run my fingers along the top of the shoulder down to prosternum and then down to elbow. It should resemble a triangle.

If you subscribe to the LQ or can get a hold of the Spring 2007 edition, Diann Sullivan-August wrote an excellent article on structure with pictures to help understand what is correct and what is not.
Hope this helps.
Shelley

A breeder once told me that a finger should fit tightly between the blades, no more, no less.
I have used this method since then and I feel it works!

I disagree about the LQ article. I felt that it was vague, confusing and undocumented. Also, the photos and diagrams were either incorrectly and inconsistently marked or misidentified.

I was always told two fingers width was most desired.

"If you subscribe to the LQ or can get a hold of the Spring 2007 edition, Diann Sullivan-August wrote an excellent article on structure with pictures to help understand what is correct and what is not."

I also wondered what she was doing...when looking at front angulation she drew the joint as the point of the prosternum instead of the actual articulation between the scapula and humerus and that made the drawn angles inaccurate and a bit ridiculous

I saw those diagrams in the Quarterly and couldn't believe they were analyzing shoulder layback from the prosternum and not from the shoulder joint. I also think, as mentioned above, that the most important thing is the angle between the upper arm and the shoulder blade. But also don't forget, no matter how the bone structure looks, it is the connective tissue that allows (or prevents) the shoulder to "open" properly while the dog is moving.

As far as wide shoulders....I was taught that when the dog's head is down as if drinking, the blades should be as close to touching as possible without actually touching. The width of a piece of paper......