How many of you charge a smaller stud fee for young, unproven dogs? It seems to me that I shouldn't charge full fees for a young boy with no get on the ground.

Some do, some don't. I guess my advice is don't expect it. A stud fee is just that, a fee for stud service. You will most likely have some sort of guarantee of puppies in a stud contract. You will have no idea of what you will get (you never do), but even more since you have not seen anything produced by this dog.

You must like the dog for something if you are looking to use him, be it his pedigree, phenotype etc... Every breeding is a roll of the dice on what you are going to get.

The first stud service for any of my boys has always been $500. Three live pups or a repeat breeding.
I always have the semen collected and evaluated by my vet who then either does the AI or ships it out for me.
After he is proven, the fee is $800.

I just used a young stud. He is an Am. CH., just mentioning that as an aside, as I would have used him even if he wasn't finished, but maybe to some stud owners that would factor into what they ask for a stud fee? He has one other litter on the ground. Stud fee $500.

Out of curiousity, what would be the average expense for collection and shipment?

With the breeding I mentioned, the dog was collected at a repro specialist (lucky stud owner to have one so close) who had shipping kits on hand, repro clinic had FedEx pickup shipment from there.
The repro collection costs including box was $120. I had my own FedEx account, so just charged courier fee to that, but I think it was around $44 dollars. So would be double those costs for doing two AIs shipments.

So this leads me to a question. When collection costs are involved, do most stud owners just built that expense into what they ask for the stud fee, or do most stipulate it will be an add on cost; example, stud fee $900 + plus collection and shipping costs? Personally, I'm fine with it either way, just so it's made clear up front, and I'm given an pretty good estimate of what their vet charges for collection. Sometimes I do think it just makes it all easier to figure those costs in and include it in the stud fee especially it it's a situation where a vet's services are used for all the collections.

I have always paid the stud fee up front and paid for all extras such as kits, collections, AI's, shipping myself. I've NEVER had a stud owner pay for those expenses.
I have paid anywhere from 600 to 1200 for a stud fee.

I think stud fees vary from state to state some too.

I have a question, when registering a litter, how are all the breeders getting away with NOT checking that a breeding was an AI when in fact it usually is and always choose the natural option and that they witnessed the natural breeding?

If/when we get Rusty's certifications done and he is offered at stud, we will not be charging additional for collection, it will be factored into his stud fee. Not that he'd likely be in high demand. It seems silly, to me, (I'm not passing judgement on how others do things, by the way) to charge someone an extra fee to get something they couldn't possibly get themselves. We'll charge shipping & probably a refundable deposit for boxes, since the bitch owner COULD theoretically pick up the collection themselves.

To me, it's like buying a new car and then having the dealership charge you extra for assembly. Again, no judgement on others!

I have always test bred my boys to one of my
own bitches first! Mainly to see what he is
producing also, to make sure he can sire a litter
of puppies. You just never know that for sure.

I could never collect a stud fee from anyone
not knowing that.

After that, depending on if he is pointed or
not $500.00 is what I charged in the past.

The collection should be the responsibilty of the stud dog owner, shipping expenses the bitch owner.

I would never charge the bitch owner for a collection. I used a boy who's owner couldn't collect him so paid a collection fee on top of stud fees.
The semen arrived in very bad shape so not only am I out for the boxes and shipping, I'm out for the collection fee too. I was not pleased sending that money and will go to another stud next season.

You mean if the stud owner has to take the dog to the Vet's for collection you have not been paying for that? I have always been made to pay for the Vet's fee for collection.

I believe the AKC requires that a vet collect a dog when there using fresh, chilled semen shipped to a bitch. The vet signs that they collected the dog and it is the dog on the papers.

Bonnie

No one seems to follow those rules. I have had semen shipped to me and the stud owner always checks natural.

So do the bitch owners. How is it that this gets looked over by the AKC?

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Replying to:

I believe the AKC requires that a vet collect a dog when there using fresh, chilled semen shipped to a bitch. The vet signs that they collected the dog and it is the dog on the papers.

Bonnie

Our Vet has always collected our boys and filled out the appropriate paperwork and the bitch owner has paid for that service. BTW, AKC is beginning to check on 'witnessed the mating' registrations they suspect were cross country A.I.s. One breeder in our area was asked to produce travel documentation.

As we know; not all vets are repro vets.Is there any type of board certification for this speciality in veterinary medicine Many vets in general practice do not know how to properly collect a stud dog where I reside. I have seen many vets turn to a good breeder to collect for them.

Are you sure AKC requires a vet to do the collection? Is it documented?

You were not made to pay it, you chose to.
Many if not most bitch owners will just pass on a stud dog if they are asked to pay for the collection on top of a stud fee, this includes myself. It is important to detail all charges upfront so there are no surprises at the end.

"Are you sure AKC requires a vet to do the collection? Is it documented?"

AKC requires a veterinarian to sign the paperwork indicating they either did the procedure or was a witness during the collection and insemination when the dogs are NOT present so this would be for shipping. If the two dogs are present then they do not require a veterinarian. So basically they are trusting breeders to do collections and inseminations if the dogs are right there but not if the dog is to be shipped which is silly to me. It's not that they don't think breeders can collect and inseminate - it's that they think a vet will keep us honest in case we want to do a "switcharoo" which is now a moot point since we have DNA testing available.

I have heard of quotes from veterinarians to collect and perform an analysis of anywhere between $40.00 - $120.00. When a breeder collects themselves it's free of course. Shipping from the east coast to CA is around $60.00 for overnight/morning delivery whereas east coast to midwest is only $40.00. Saturday morning delivery is about $10.00 more.

Yes and try and find a good repo vet who is open on Saturdays if you need a collection or if a bitch owner needs a vet to inseminate her bitch on a weekend using chilled semen from out of state.

We can't expect our vets to wait at our beck and call for weekend collections and inseminations. They have a life to but maybe all breeders should contact AKC and get the rule about having a vet sign the AI's changed so everything is on the up and up for all stud dog owners and bitch owners who routinely order chilled semen and collect their boys and ship.

If you have been around long enough, you will remember when semen shipping came on the scene. Prior to that bitches were delivered to the stud dog, even if that meant flying her in cargo. The majority of breedings were natural and AI's were the exception. When we started shipping semen, the vet collection was necessary for the first time and most stud dog owners had no experience with them. Because of the then current practices, the vet collection became an extra expense (remember, it was the bitch owner's responsibility to deliver the bitch to the stud dog) and it was passed along to the bitch owner with the other expenses incurred, such as shipping. That is how the precedent was established.

Today, most stud dog owners are able to collect their own boys and they do not charge a collection fee. In the current environment, if a stud dog owner cannot do collections himself, it probably makes sense to imbed the vet's charges in the stud fee. The stud dog owner could simply increase the stud fee to cover the vet collection costs. As was discussed earlier, there is a range of stud fees. The bitch owner could pass on a stud dog if he felt the stud fee was to high. Much easier.

Great explanation breeder!

Also don't forget, before shipping semen, say 10 years ago, the average price for a puppy was probably $500-600. Now it is double that. The vet charges are probably less today that if you had to ship a bitch.