We just want to let everyone know who were concerned about the puppies that we are pleased to say that everyone is doing well! No more sub q's and everyone is eating on their own, meds are being continued. We are still waiting on test results and hope to have answers for what happened. Honestly one of the biggest parts of their recovery I swere was the long talks I would have with them, reminding them that we have had so much fun and that there was so much more to be done.....

One of the biggest things I have learned is NEVER GIVE UP!! After being told that all my puppies would likely die my instincts refused to believe that... whatever needed to be done would be done no matter what if there was any chance I would do it. With determination sometimes it does work out and for me and the babies it did. So even if I dont get answers I've learned the most valuable lesson of all and I hope that this can give hope and courage to others should you ever need it.

Thanks so much for the update. Glad to here you and the pups are doing much better. I hope you find the answers.

So glad to hear they're doing better Barbara. I hope you get to the bottom of what was going on however thankfully you didn't give up.

xoxo's for your babies!! Enjoy them!!

Michelle

Thank you for the update, and so sorry you went through this, but thank you for sharing your experience... I think we all have an opportunity to learn from this type of sharing.

I'm glad things have settled down with them and you.

Thanks for the update. I hope you get lots of time now to just enjoy them. Good for you for refusing to give up.

Been gone a while and just read thru your original post.

I'm so sorry for what you have been thru and can feel your fear during it all.

I am so happy to read this update and pray that the pups continue to improve and thrive.

babies are still doing well THANK GOODNESS!! but I'm even more confused then ever...especially since I got my pathology report and it points it's ugly finger at Parvo pups were immunized 7 and 4 days earlier then the first strange poop appeared (and really it wasnt that bad) and 10 days prior to the first pup was noticable thin... Lab results were negative for parvo but pathology says it was Parvo has anyone had similiar experience? negative then positive? I'm terrified now never had this experience 12years as a breeder ....I have a bitch due in 10 day... I'm bleaching bleaching bleaching Vet says pups will shed 30 days

I now realize how lucky I was to only lose 3 pups without the ills ones being iv'd and me just using sub q's to save the other 5.... I dont get how 7 didnt get sick at all...

PLEASE offer advice....

Barbara, what brand of vaccinations did you use on your puppies ? I would use the high titer Parvo and Distemper that over rides the mother's on your upcoming litter and give it to them say at 6 weeks of age instead of the normal 7 to 8 weeks. I don't know what the earlies age other breeders give their puppy vaccinations but in this case where you had parvo on your property, I would think earlier the better on your new litter.
As long as you keep your upcoming litter out of the area where the Parvo was spread and away from all the other dog areas where it could have been tracked in, including your house. By making everyone in your family dip their shoes in bleach or leave their shoes off at the front door, it should help cut down the chance of Parvo making it's way to your new litter.

Good luck with your new litter !!

Barbara, please email me, I know someone who can help you who just went through this.

I used the Fort Dodge Duramune Max 5 , have used that for the last year. Prior to I used it with the Corona but so many people said that corona wasnt a problem and not to use it including my Vet...

i have a few dogs due for a yearly within weeks (16+ months getting their first annual then they would go to the every other year) and my older dogs are vaccinated only every two years including the expectant mom last vaccine was oct 05 should i vaccinate everyone now ? I know that vaccinated her is not recommended....what would you do? and what vaccine do you use I'm so afraid of the Ft Dodge now even though it could be not vaccine related.....

You can not vaccinate a pregnant or nursing mom. I vaccinate my pups at 6 weeks with Vanguard plus 5 by Pfizer
http://www.pfizerah.com/product_overview.asp?drug=V5&country=US&lang=EN&species=CN
I never let anyone see or near the pups or mom until they have their first shot. Also I still vaccinate my dogs every year.

Colloidal Silver is said to be great against viral/bacterial and is all natural with no side affects, you can resaearch it on line and form your own oppinion....as for cleaning there are products specif. made for decontamination of parvo.

are they 100% sure it was Parvo?? how did they conclude?? Parvo does have it's own terrible smell once you smell it you NEVER forget it, did it have that smell?, even vets usually recognize the stench right off. Just doesn't sound like Parvo to me...be very careful.

What exactly does the "comment" section of the pathology report say? If you just vaccinated Parvo is going to show up, you are giving it in the vaccine.

There is still a window of up to 14 days for a vac to become effective and if still nursing mom even a little it can interfere with titer so keeping pups away from people until 1ST shot is given is not 100% either, the immunity isn't built up until the pups are 12 to 16 weeks anyway and even then there is stil a chance of becoming diseased. I still say it's something else...the vet would have recogn. that smell of Parvo as soon as they came thru the door and I don't believe it was that particular brand of shots either. There are neo-par shots that can be given at 3 1/2 to 4 weeks and I still believe in yearly vaccination also when breeding and showing, even if that particular dog isn't going to shows but others in the family are.

Hang in there Barbara, we're praying for ya.

I do agree, Parvo has a very distinctive smell. And I am too surprized at the diagnousis. But the pups are getting better...so what ever they did worked!

I have been told it is possible to initially test neg when parvo is still the dx but not very likely. I was also told that a snap test soon after a vaccination could test positive even when they were not infected so I would certainly question any findings if you recently vaccinated.
The smell IS ungodly. You really cant forget it. Surely no vet could, so if that was not what your vet felt it was I would trust their instinct on that one. Take all the precautions as if it were the case, but try not to worry yourself sick.
Sadly I lost a loved pup to the horrid disease....just as I had a brand new litter on the ground! I was terrified that any day the whole litter would become ill. Every day I watched and cleaned like a mad woman. Even bleached the yard.
The good news? not a single pup became sick.
I did vaccinate at 6 weeks and made sure that all new owners were religious about the remainder of the vaccines even calling them on the due dates until they were 16 weeks. I also made sure that anyone who had any dogs at home updated all vaccines weeks prior to bringing home their new pups and I kept them all here longer than normal to be on the safe side and so I could vaccinate them a second time before sending them home.
Its a frightening thing, but even if it was parvo, keep the faith that all will be ok and just do all in your power to keep everything clean .... there is a good disinfectant called trifectant that kills the virus....i am sure you already know that most household cleaners don't kill it other than bleach. Bleach is great, but trifectant was good to spray everything from the whelping box to the carpets and even peoples pant legs. Being a newbie, this would have been unbearable had I not had so many more experienced people to help me through, help me make good choices and calm me down...there are some wonderful people on these boards that gave me such support.
best wishes to you, your pups, and your upcoming litter.
Annie

I just hope that when they come off of supportive care "it" doesn't come back. If just treating the symptoms, which is all we can do in some cases, but not the proper cause, "it" will most likely return.

As for cleaning, I would alternate between bleach and the old fashioned brown Lysol just to be safe. There are some things bleach doesn't kill that Lysol will and visa-versa.

Be very careful and don't let your guard down. The adults may be carriers of something as you sound like you were VERY careful with the babies. I would ask the vet if you should treat them also...

The smell.... thats the one thing that really doesnt add up either. Both Vets said the smell was not there, I've never smelled it but like many have mentioned it is suppossed to be unforgetable.

Here's what I'm thinking that this was vaccine induced Parvo from the shots. If symptoms looked like parvo, but no smell, didnt test Parvo , but pathology says Parvo wouldnt you be suspisious of the vaccine? It's not a normal Parvo by no means but maybe one that was manufactured????

A few questions

Do you really think bleaching the yard helps? can it penetrate deep enough? How long before you would allow other new puppies in that yard where the infected puppies have been? 5mths? 7mths?
what about washing bedding that cant be bleached any other additives that can be used? or is washing (double wash cycle) and drying enough?


I appreciate all the support, kind words and encouragement. This for a few days really felt like it was going to break me I'm glad it didnt and I thank you guys in part for that...

We had Parvo here 2 years ago and went nuts with bleaching and found that it was easiest bleaching the grounds using pool chlorine in a fertilizer sprayer that attaches to a hose (I used tons!). I sprayed twice a day for at least 2 weeks and knew when I was within a block of my house by the smell.

Barbara, just be so careful...I really don't think it was Parvo and your vets prob don't think so either. I don't believe it's vaccine related either. Did the pathology report say anything about "numerous colonies of small bacteria in capillaries and in the lamina propria of both the large and small intestine"? or lesions on the heart and lung or could e.coli be isolated?? Generally there is such a severe crypt epithial cell necrosis that it is unmistakeably Parvo. Like I said, Parvo will show positive if given the vaccine. There was most likely both viral and bacteria showing up, correct? Keep in mind that Parvo is a virus and bacterial can be secondary but may also be a culprit. Were there lesions in the stomach and liver? Again...what was the FINAL diagnosis and comments?

As for cleaning, Parvo can be present for a long time and there are specific cleaners made just for disinfecting such a virus.

Did it destroy you lawn?

Have your water tested, then you can rule that out. A adult dog can deal with Ecoli to a certain degree, but a young pup will have problems.
My Vet missed it! I didnt have any pups die but had projectile diarrhea. The more they pooped the more water I gave them....until I put 2 and 2 together. I boil all water given( 5 minute rolling boil) to the babies now even though I have a sterile light. They are not fail proof. They dont work when you loose power and its easy to forget not to flush the toilet! Also I had a light that 1 filiment burned out and we didnt even know.

My question is was the milk of the mother tested?

I had a case of dying puppies and it turned out she was passing e-coli through her milk.

Your yard will be the toughest problem, and the vets I talked to said that it can be there for years so although I sprayed with bleach several times, my thinking was more to lower any levels than to truly eradicate it. Besides, all our dogs get exposed to it out in the world at some point so I think it is a matter of reducing the levels and proper vaccinations.

As for laundry, that was one of the reason I recommended the trifectant that you can get from most vet supply sites.
Pay attention to how big your washer is as far as gallons and adjust the amount to fit the recommended disinfecting ratios. It comes in a giant tub of powder and that was what I used for several loads of laundry I was concerned about. Dog stuff got bleached or thrown out, people stuff got trifecant.
Best wishes!
Annie

Barbara, I would order some Parvaid and Vibactra plus from Ambertech: http://www.ambertech.com/
Give the Parvaid and Vibactra and you can use it preventively with your new litter. I've used this product with both a sick puppy and as a preventive for other puppies and it works very, very well. It will even work if it is something like giardia or camphylobactor.
Here is more information on how to use it: http://www.ambertech.com/parv/Parvo_Information_Self_Help_Guide.pdf
I would also suspect the vaccine as even in high titre vaccines, our puppies can succumb to the virus we are vaccinating for.
Dilute the bleach 30:1 and remember the parvo will be shed by the surviving puppies for 6 weeks after symptoms and can be in your ground for months.