A little survey here. If you found yourself in a room full of very successful breeders in your breed who had been doing this a long time- 30 years or more and again, with success- What questions would you want to ask them. You can name particular breeders you would want to ask, and they have to still be living, or you can just come up with a question or several questions for any of the experienced breeders, in general. Also you don't have to give your name but do mention how long you have been 'in' Labradors- so the type of questions and the length of time you have been involved in the fancy can be indicated.
Judy Heim

I have been in Labs since 1984 and have finally gotten to the point where I feel I have some breeding stock that I "know", in that I have 6 generations of my own breedings. I am going to work on a list of questions, since I think this is a great topic. But to start with - a question for the breeders with alot of experience - would you say you have the best results with line breeding or type to type? If the answer is line breeding - how close and "what combo" (ie grandfather to grandaughter)? Also - what have you found is the hardest trait to incorporate and also the hardest trait to get rid of? Do you find that some lines just produce better blacks than yellows? What is the best way to produce a strong stud that can produce himself?

Well, I know for sure I would say.......
How do you do it? I mean we have been doing it for 16 years. There is so much heartache, and stress, lots of times. Even the shows, and travel can get tiresome. There are times you just feel like giving up. Of course there are lots of rewards, so guess thats why we keep going back for more.
So, my question, is how do you do it? And keep at it without giving up?
What is the secret?
haha
I am sure there are lots of other questions I could ask, but this is the first that pops into my head.

Good subject.

Been in Labs 14 years. Question: How do you breed for type and live with all our health problems at the same time? (hearts, epilepsy, orthopedic, movement, etc.) I heard of one very successful long time breeder who was quoted as saying "if you breed for type, you will have health problems.

How can I, as a primarily bitch owner with a small breeding program pick stud dogs and know what I'm getting myself in for, i.e. health problems, knowing that life is more complicated than clear hips and eyes?

I like the line breeding vs. type breeding question too, as in what have been the most successful breedings?

How can we work to have our health issues be more out in the open?

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Replying to:

A little survey here. If you found yourself in a room full of very successful breeders in your breed who had been doing this a long time- 30 years or more and again, with success- What questions would you want to ask them. You can name particular breeders you would want to ask, and they have to still be living, or you can just come up with a question or several questions for any of the experienced breeders, in general. Also you don't have to give your name but do mention how long you have been 'in' Labradors- so the type of questions and the length of time you have been involved in the fancy can be indicated.
Judy Heim

How can you approach stud dog owners with questions about their dogs without insulting them. For instance, if you had heard of a stud dog that may have produced a problem, and you want to ask the stud owner about it. It's a touchy situation. Aside from owning pet labs all my life, I have been involved in the sport of labs about 10 years.

How do you pick your puppies? I can think of a very successful breeder who I know has an incredibly keen eye. Boy would I like to be inside that eye to see what this breeder does. How do you do it? How come you pick ones that others pass over....and you are right in the end!!!! Granted, this breeder has been in Labs for 25+ years and has a well developed line.

This is a great subject, and oddly enough, I was just thinking the other night how I would love to get a few particular breeders alone in a room for a few hours one on one and just talk, talk, talk!!!!

this is a great thread. thumbs up to the thread starter. i am not in the breed as of yet, but have been into dogs for the past 10+ yrs.
what exactly is a must to look for with picking a girl to start a program? would it be better for your girl be a product of linebreeding or no?

we've been at it 7 years and i'm too chicken to breed
so my question would be

how do you know? that this is the right stud for this bitch, how do you look and know what will improve your lines

barb

In Labs about 5 years; my first hopeful foundation will be a year old next week.

In the beginning, middle, and even through "today," how do they keep track of dogs? Not their own, but who they've seen, what they thought, tracking those 12 month boys that have nice pedigrees, wanting to check back once he's grown or has a few pups on the ground. That sort of thing.

Also, what is the biggest mistake they made, that they would like to impress that no one ever repeats, a preventable disaster that they didn't see coming?

I want to know who is going to answer all of these great questions. These are all things that I ask myself all the time.

Wonderful topic promoting very thought-provoking questions. I've been in Labradors since 1988, so almost 20 years. Since there are so many individual answers to each question, this could open up a great discussion about a lot of important topics. So much in breeding is educated guesswork, opinion based on experience, and the proverbial crapshoot...it would be great to get some of these topics discussed for all of us to benefit from. One of the hardest things to accomplish in long-term breeding is to keep an open perspective.
I think that some of the great experienced breeders of the past have been reluctant to divulge their breeding secrets or voice their opinions for public consumption for a lot of reasons. Other breeders can be very judgemental, and that ego-based approach has got to stop. Hopefully we're entering into a new era of sharing of information openly that can benefit all, particularly the breed.
Myself I would be interested to know from experienced breeder/exhibitors how heavily certain aspects weigh for them in evaluating a dog for a breeding progam or for show: type, soundness/movement, balance, temperament/personality?
Again, thanks for the great topic!

Owned by Labs for 9 years..

I had my male at an obedience class last year...getting ready for TA/HA, it was the dogs first class...I asked the instuctor (20 year Lab person) her opinion of him...she said he was "OK", looked a little off and thought his hips might be bad! She said he had a "sloppy" gate...needless to say I worried and fretted with this boy for months as he was only a few months old and I couldn't have him evaluated then. His hips came back Excellent! and the vet said that that was something good to look for, a lot of "play" in the back, makes for better movement with room in the sockets. He is a gorgeous boy IMO and is very nice in his movement to me but I don't know what she meant about "being off" and "sloppy gate"? I just didn't see it. His gate is exactly what I look for when starting one in training as a young pup, now she has me second guessing myself. How do you evaluate movement and look for a hip prob in a young pup before putting all the time and energy into training, don't get me wrong, I think every dog should be obedience trained but the route I take affects people's lives and are few and far between.

So, Judy, does this mean you will be a guest speaker at an upcoming Potomac seminar????



Count me in if so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Been in labs 20+ years.

Top breeders run on multiple puppies from litters and taking their time placing them. They might even show them in several specialties before making their cuts. If there are several of equal quality and they NEED to place some, they put them where they can get back to them. Especially the boys. It doesn't matter if these great boys are shown, they come from important lines, and finding a great home that allows these breeders to use them in their breeding program is what is important. Well known successful breeders have the ability and waiting list to place some girls out on a co-ownership, then pick the studs and have the option of getting back on average two puppies from each litter from the first two or three litters.

If a breeder has a stud in demand and some really top bitches come to him you can bet they will waive their stud fee and ask for a puppy back. I have seen these stud owners travel to opposites side of the country to show their studs at Specialties (not talking Potomac). Obviously this gives the breeding community a chance to see their boy but will also allow a smart stud owner a chance to see more quality bitches. A few of my friends and I have been approached by these stud owners suggesting that we use their stud on our bitches they would waive the stud fee for a puppy back. Perfect way to bring in quality blood to a stud breeder's program.

Just by playing the odds and going through many, many puppies increase their chances of getting that next great puppy.

Breeders of consistant quality have strong lines and can produce promising puppies in each litter but they certainly cannot bend mother nature to their will and, just like other breeders,many of their hopefuls fall short or come up with health issues. But they have something most of us do not. The ability to run on and sort through large numbers, wether at their home, hrough many many coownerships or at times through stud fee/puppy exchange.

One question i would most likely ask would be " When they started out in labradors what did they feel they learned over the years from having they first foundation bitch or dog to the present. Also who was their mentor and why.one thing with having breeders that have been around for years, i would also just sit back and absorb as much information that they are sharing with each other. listening is a excellent tool.

I've been in Labradors for 13 years but have been showing dogs since I was 13 (so 20 years in the ring). I feel priveliedged in that I have sat around many a dinner table with 30+ year breeders. In my experience you will learn far more from them by just listening and letting the converstaion go where it may than badgering them with questions. While seminars are great I love the in depth dinner conversations. Of course anyone who knows me knows I really go to dog shows for the food.

I am watching this thread carefully! I have the same questions as the others, as well as how to make the most of your breeding program when you don't have a lot of room to run on very many at a time.

Judy, are you going to speak at a seminar? Please let it be on the West coast!

Sounds like you attended obedience classes with the same instructor I did! LOL
Relax. Follow your heart and your instincts. If you think your boy looks good, then he does. His hips came back excellent. You can't be too far off. Trust yourself and forget what this trainer said. Been there, done that. I too fretted over what the instructor said.
As I said, follow your heart and your instincts. She may be a good trainer, but she doesn't really know your boy.

I forgot to mention, I have been involved in Labradors for about 4 years.

One question of mine would be what someone else said. How do you get the stud dog owners to really tell you their dogs strengths and weaknesses ? When you are a smaller breeder and can't keep many pups, it sure would be helpful to be able to move foward and not back. Second would be, do you mark your pups from birth and what age do you pick what you are keeping?

I think that your answers are as variable as the people that own the stud dogs.
Those people that care about the breed and are reputable and not egotistical, will give you the best information.
Use your best judgment on evaluating the stud dog. Best to have a mentor in this process.

Thank you to those who have actually asked questions- those were great great questions. No I am not going to be giving a seminar at least in the very near future, however maybe you will see your questions in a book someday.
Again what good questions you guys came up with. I'm sorry I didn't get right back to this but like all of you I was extremely distressed by the news about Annie and really forgot all about having put this on here for a bit. If you are religious say a prayer for her, if you are not then send her postive, strong, get up and fight thoughts. I really want to be able to talk to Annie again about life and dogs and to laugh with her, so lets do all we can to boost her right out of that bed and back to her friends and family.

Thanks...I needed that. I almost threw in the towel on him...a lot of time and energy for a dog that may not "pan out"...I am so glad I didn't now...he is one of the few and far betweens that exceeds in learning and most importantly...he LOVES what he's doing!

Along the vein of getting info on stud dogs... how about info on the grandparents when the stud dog owner doesn't have the answer. It's said to go straight to the owner and ask, but what good is it when you ask the same question twice (to both co-owners) and never the courtesy of a reply or any kind of acknowledgement that the question was asked. So do breeders whose dogs appear or may appear in a hoped for breeding mind answering questions when someone comes straight to them??

Judy that's an excellent idea! We do need to collect the wisdom of our top breeders, and have it in a book format to be referred to. The articles in the LQ ask VERY generic questions.

So, these answers aren't going to be answered am I correct?

For the long time stud dog owners (and I am praying that Annie Cogo will also be able to answer this one day soon) - how do you deal with the bitch owners who have "all their clearances" but have never attended shows or done anything with their dogs?

Why is everyone expected to show and "do something" with their dogs?

OK, I'm sorry this isn't a question. But I have to respond to this one.
My bitch has had 3 litters before I spayed her. If I had to show her before I could use one of the nice stud dogs out there she would have not had one litter with a nice stud. When I paired her with a nice dog, she produced some nice pups.
Not all show propects, but they don't all have to be.
Right now I'm running on two from her last litter. Oh, by the way, one of them is a yellow bitch that in her first show at 10 mos. got WB & BOS for a 4 pt. major.
I thank the three stud owners that let me use their dogs.

Sorry Judy, I couldn't help myself on this one. This is a very good thread. There's alot of the same questions I could ask. As a previous poster said it would be good to just sit in a room of good long time breeders and just be able to listen to them and absorb it all.

Donna

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Replying to:

For the long time stud dog owners (and I am praying that Annie Cogo will also be able to answer this one day soon) - how do you deal with the bitch owners who have "all their clearances" but have never attended shows or done anything with their dogs?

I have been in the breed 6 years and have a few questions.
1. If your are running on a really nice girl that has placed several times, but has not won, when and what tells us it's time to think brood bitch, or if she'll even make a good one?
2. If after producing a few generation of your own stuff, you realize you are producing much better boys than girls and you really want to improve your bitch lines, where do you start and what should be your first considerations?
3. Your really liking the type of your dogs; head, front, topline, coat, tail, etc. but are have great difficulty getting the rear angles you really want, even using a boy with great angles, what is going wrong?
4. When picking the stud for your girl, you have say two or more boys that compliment her well, no problem using any of them, what is the driving force that chooses one over the other?
5. During the pedigree research stage, what questions do you ask yourself and what do you look for; how do you better research the past generations?
6. When learning about genetics, you can research basic Labrador genetics online, but is it only trial and error that teaches you what to sort of expect from a breeding or is there a more indepth science? or do you just get lucky?
7. When bettering the breed what is your final goal?
8. What was your start in Labradors?

Here are a few, I'm sure I have more. But this is what I've got for now. Love this thread!