Hi,
We are thinking about possibly breeding our new puppy someday. We are not sure as we obviously have a few years and tons to learn before we can. However here is a long story about how I got here, and a simple question at te end.
I have been reading this forum the past few months while we searched for our lab puppy (which we happily found.. she is 11 weeks old now). We lost our last lab (12 years old) earlier this year to cancer. When we bought her back then we did not want to support puppy stores or mills so we searched for a breeder. Simple....open the newspaper call a few breeders...find one with puppy's and buy one. Thats pretty much how it went. we were lucky. She was the perfect dog who gave us 12 wonderful years.
This time around with the internet here to help us we were able to learn the difference between a responsible breeder and one who has a few litters a year just to make a few bucks. After all I have learned I have no doubt that 12 years ago that is who we bought from.
Ok, so now the point of my post :)
In the past few months I have grown fascinated with world of breeding Lab's. I find myself looking at breeder websites (even though we are not searching for a puppy) looking at the pedigree of the dogs. I find it all SO interesting.
We became pretty friendly with our breeder during the whole puppy buying process. We brought her back for a visit the other day. While we were there the breeder was looking at her and pointing out to me how her tail, shouders, ears etc...etc... were very nice. Then he said somthing like "if she continues to develop nicely you should breed her". I said I would love to, but I am not sure if I would. Also that I think I would be terrified through the whole breeding process. He said if we ever wanted to, and he felt she was breed quality that he would help through the whole process.
When we lost our last dog we thought how great it would have been if she had puppies and we kept one.
Plus it would make me so happy to possibly be able to give a good puppy family the happiness that we felt when we found our girl.

Ok...now my question.
If we decide that we dont want to breed her we would have her spayed. Are there any drawbacks to having that done when she is a bit older?

Also I would love to hear some stories about how and why you ended up breeding Labrador's

Thanks for taking the time to read my long rant for a short question. I figured I would let you know a bit about how I got here before asking advice.

Thanks,
Bob

Oops.... a typo in the subject line of my first post

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/responsiblebreeder.html

http://members.aol.com/gelet1447/breeding.htm

http://www.pwcca.org/art_7foundtns.html


"we thought how great it would have been if she had puppies and we kept one."

This is IMO a perfect example why NOT to breed. Its just as bad as the person who says 'I want my children to learn and watch the miracle of birth' or 'I think my dog deserves to have one litter to calm it down'

You just need to sort out what your true intentions are for breeding. Is it just to produce another pup, or do you want to go to events with your dogs, improve the breed and invest the blood, sweat, tears and MONEY to be a responsible breeder.

Good luck in making your educated decision. If you still decide to breed, find a mentor

My first reaction to your post was that I found it curious why the breeder would say your puppy is so nice but say 'breed her' vs. 'show her'. If I had a nice puppy I would want to enter her in shows/specialties, have other breeder judges evaluate her. Would also want to do other things with her depending on your interest; obedience, field work, agility eventually. Breeding for the first time because your bitch is 'nice' I personally wouldn't do (although I know many people started that way and will argue the point).

Join a lab club or all breed club, go to specialties, talk to breeders, study some more, find mentors. THEN decide if you want to breed. The Woodhaven articles are great and it's a very good all around educational site.

It sounds as though Bob already HAS a mentor in the breeder who sold him his pup, and it sounds like the mentor is pretty darn happy with the puppy Bob now owns.

I would bet a lot of people get into showing and then into breeding on the advice of their pup's breeder. Everyone has a story about the pup they sold that they wish they had kept:-)

The only thing I'd warn you about, Bob, is the heartache and financial obligations that can go with breeding. For example, a person I know recently spent over sixteen thousand dollars in vet bills to save her 8 week old litter of pups after they got parvo. One died but the rest survived, thankfully. The money she got from selling the pups did little to offset her vet bill though. Always expect the unexpected when you breed -- and make sure you have deep pockets just in case!

Barb

I'm troubled by the comment made "if she continues to develop nicely you should breed her". This comment is surely putting the cart before the horse?

That was my thought as well....most breeders I know would say something like....If she keeps on developing well maybe you might want to try your hand at some handling classes and see how she does....or....maybe you would think about letting me show her a time or two and see how she does.
However...each to their own, and I do think it is nice that you and he have such a relationship that you can take the pup back for visits, I think that says something:)
Just make sure you read the forums for a good long while and try to make some personal relationships with some long timers other than just your pups breeder before you go agreeing to anything or jumping in feet first.
I don't know your breeder so am making no inference as to his decency as a person, but some might take advantage of someone new to all this and still wide eyed to all the labby possibilities. As has been discussed at length in various threads, all kinds of agreements exist and you need to educate yourself.My first breeder wanted me to use only her studs.(and pay her stud fees of course) This is just one tiny example of something that seems innocuous when you are a newbie, but as you educate yourself you will understand how important that one thing is if your goal is to breed conformationally better labs and not just litters of pups.
Not preaching here as I dont have enough years in to do it, but sharing my thoughts.
Annie

Did the breeder sell you this puppy on a limited registration? Maybe he was speaking of changing the limited registration to full? Most reputable breeders only sell pet puppies on limited registration.

I agree with the other posters. My first reaction to seeing a puppy that I bred turning out would be to encourage you join a breed club and take some handling classes.
Good luck with your girl!

I think we have a lot of "newbies" on here who have never entered a show giving advice.

Gee...I don't see whats wrong with a person at any stage of things stating the obvious.
Do your research first.
Know that just because you have a "breed-able" dog doesn't mean you are cut out to do it.
Know why you want to breed and finally, find someone you TRUST to help guide you.
I could understand your issue with "newbies" if they were saying heck ya, breed that bitch instead of, take your time and search your soul.
Why is it so important for some to make such an issue out of who has been doing what for how long if nothing destructive is being said, and peoples hearts are in what they say?

breeder says "I think we have a lot of "newbies" on here who have never entered a show giving advice."

Now how long do you personally expect someone to have been entering shows to be considered a "non-newbie" ? 15 years, 20 years or more? Don't clump everyone that replies together, you might find yourself in the same boat one of these days.

"I think we have a lot of "newbies" on here who have never entered a show giving advice."

Actually, I think it would be pretty hard to determine by the answers given whether someone has entered a show or not. Surely you can do better than that....

"I think we have a lot of "newbies" on here who have never entered a show giving advice. "

I smell a troll, that statement CANNOT be determined by the posts.

What does it matter how long someone has been showing? How is it relevant to breeding? Not at all! I know lots of "show people" who never breed a litter, they buy good dogs from good kennels just becasue they enjoy the win a breeder they will never make geesh!
Aloha,
Jackie

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Replying to:

breeder says "I think we have a lot of "newbies" on here who have never entered a show giving advice."

Now how long do you personally expect someone to have been entering shows to be considered a "non-newbie" ? 15 years, 20 years or more? Don't clump everyone that replies together, you might find yourself in the same boat one of these days.

Thank you all for your replies.
Our puppy is only 11 weeks old. We have a long time to do our research and see if we are breed quality people :)
If we do decide to gop ahead with it I would want to show her. That meant alot to us when we shopping for her. It was nice to see what the dog's in her pedegree have acomplished.
As for a mentor. Our breeder would be with us all the way from deciding if she should be bread, picking a stud, right up through welping. It would all be in the breeders hands as her registation would have to be changed to full.
I will continue to read and learn.
Please understand this isn't something I am dead set on doing. I am here to learn if it something that is right for us and our puppy. If we do it would be for all the right reasons. Everyone has to start somewhere..

Thanks again,

Good luck on learning everything. There is a lot. If you like reading, there are a ton of good books too. You have almost 4 months to get ready before you can even show you dog, so take the time to learn about training, find your local clubs, spend time with your mentor, and above all--have fun with your dog. Also remember, it's nice to show a dog, and it's even nicer to have a titled dog to breed, but you don't necessarily have to be only involved in conformation. Obedience, Rally, Agility, Hunting etc are all worthwhile goals to pursue and a good looking dog with workability is nice for breeding too (IF you do end up going that route). The bitch I show does OK, not a BIG winner, but she's got merit and will be an excellent foundation for me with the stud I have been told to use by mentors, my breeder and fellow lab experts in my area. But I also train OB on the side and the bitch WILL be titled even if all I get on her before then is a CD or RN.

So the point? There is a lot you can do with your dog in the next two + years while you wait to see if breeding is your destiny.

and a question you asked that got missed in all this, was about spaying her
"Ok...now my question.
If we decide that we dont want to breed her we would have her spayed. Are there any drawbacks to having that done when she is a bit older?"

a lot of recent research is showing that the rush to spay at 6 months isn't as important as once thought to be.
http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html is a link to a great article, by a veterinarian, countering that lock step response to the 6 month spay/neuter, orthopedically, behaviorally, cancer considerations, incontience, and other issues lead this particular vet to recommend waiting till at least 14 months for the spay of canine athletes.

barb

Here's my 2 cents and it's going to cause a rucus so hold on to your seat. I was at a dog show this past weekend, pretty nice show I must say...or so I thought. There were 2 dogs in one class and those were the ONLY 2 dogs in that clas, 1 got first, 1 got second, both got their points...it was sad, 1 was in such poor shape had I been the judge it wouldn't have gotten a thing! It showed me that you can title ANY dog with enough time, money and the "right" timing. Now, having said that, my girls are titled, neither the dam or sire were titled or their dam or sire. I have BEAUTIFUL girls and the titles I have earned..I earned or rather THEY earned, their anscestors do not take the credit for that. These are MY lines, no judging past. I was told time and time again, don't breed to that stud or this stud...he's not titled.
As other posters have said..do your research and go by what tickles YOUR fancy.

"There were 2 dogs in one class and those were the ONLY 2 dogs in that clas, 1 got first, 1 got second, both got their points..."

So what is the AKC point schedule in that area that they were able to get pointed... or did they beat more then just two labs??

Barb,
Thanks for the info and link. It was very helpful.

""""My first breeder wanted me to use only her studs.(and pay her stud fees of course) This is just one tiny example of something that seems innocuous when you are a newbie, but as you educate yourself you will understand how important that one thing is if your goal is to breed conformationally better labs and not just litters of pups.""""""

This is a very good statement, however, whether you are a newbie or not, if you got the dog with that being a condition of your contract you should have opted out. That choice is always available. If you felt confident to get the "bitch" I would think you would have felt confident enough to breed to the breeders stud dogs. How do you know you wouldn't have bred a "conformationally" correct labrador? Basically aren't we all just producing pets? I'd have to say yes to that just on the fact that the percentage of show potential pups in a litter is usually low.

I don't think the "newbie" quote was a troll at all. It wasn't me, but they have the right to call it as they see it.

So the important lesson here which most of us have encountered at one time or another as newbie or "old" timer is>>>>>Don't enter into a contract unless your willing to fulfill it