How do you judge if a person/family is a good "risk" for co-owning a potential stud?

If we are talking a pet home that you want to co-own with the hopes of showing and breeding to this dog later, forget it. There are way too many variables that enter into the picture. No matter how much you screen or question, the simple fact is MOST pet people just want the dog to be their pet. If this puppy shows outstanding potential and is important to your breeding program, run him on yourself and see how he turns out.

I've dealt with many pet people over the years. They are wonderful people, but they are just not interested in keeping an intact male, giving him up for weeks at a time to be shown, etc. I also do not feel that is fair to ask of them either. If they are interested in showing, that's another story, but after a time in the ring, their obligations, intentions may go somewhere else.

I always say that if a dog or bitch puppy is that important to you KEEP it yourself! I've placed many promising puppies in pet homes as I've kept what I wanted for myself and those puppies in pet homes are well loved companions. They can't all be show dogs and I'd rather place them in a good pet home where they will be loved and cherished than with a breeder where they will just be another face in the crowd and subject to how well their potential develops.

Dianne

I've also found that pet owners have no idea how to keep a dog in good show condition. They are typically sloppy and soft (not in shape at all) - either too skinny or pudgy around the middle, with no coat due to being in the house all winter long, plus a "collar coat" due to keeping a pet collar on the dog all the time. I've seen some breeders who are successful at putting show dogs in pet homes on a co-own, but I'm not sure how they do it! I've given up and agree - if the puppy is promising, you'd best keep it yourself!

Thanks for the input...will keep him.

I am not so sure that this is always true. We have a CH that was sold as a pet. Once we were asked to get him to shows we did and felt that we were given a wonderful dog and that our breeders deserved the recognition they worked towards. Our pets are well conditioned and in some instances I would say that they look better than most kennel dogs. No hot spots, no ear issues, no collar lines.
I think while there is a chance that the person may not be interested you can at least be up front and talk to them about the situation. I have seen another breeder finish 3 of her "pet" placements and one go on to a couple G1's. She does all the work, i.e. picks him up, pays for entries and either handles or pays for the handler. To her it has been a win,win situation.
Good Luck!

Not all of 'em. I'd consider myself a 'pet' person before a 'show' person and certainly we're more a 'pet' family than breeders.

We manage to keep two dogs in tiptop show condition, with the results to reward us for our efforts!

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Replying to:

I've also found that pet owners have no idea how to keep a dog in good show condition. They are typically sloppy and soft (not in shape at all) - either too skinny or pudgy around the middle, with no coat due to being in the house all winter long, plus a "collar coat" due to keeping a pet collar on the dog all the time. I've seen some breeders who are successful at putting show dogs in pet homes on a co-own, but I'm not sure how they do it! I've given up and agree - if the puppy is promising, you'd best keep it yourself!

I'm glad 2 "pet" owners had a good experience with show dogs. But trust me on this as a breeder who has tried this with more than one (or two, or three...) wanna-be pet/show owners. Unless the pet owner TRULY understands what "in condition" is, it is a total disappointment when you see that fabulous puppy at 8 months of age - and he looks NOTHING like the littermate you kept! I sure haven't found one yet who can do that, even the ones that think they can.

For those of you who say that giving a prospect to a "pet person" can't help you with your breeding program because pet people just don't know what it is.

Couldn't you outline how to properly care for a show prospect?
For instance:
1. Giving a proper exercise regiment that a pet owner could follow with what they have available (pool,lake, retrieves, beach walk, walk on grass, for older dogs bike rides). Tell them how much exercise is appropriate for his age.
2. Asking them to use the type of food you prefer and use on your dogs; and if you keep a litter mate of the same sex (or have similar aged pups), give the amount of food - or a baseline of how much food they should eat.
3. Tell what supplements to use and proper coat care (which may be - DO NOT bathe this puppy with shampoo).
4. Ask them not to use a collar in the house or yard - tell them it breaks the coat and will prevent them from being shown (if thats the case). Tell them to have collars (training or flat) for when they leave the house. Introduce them to the world of slip leads - I love them!
5. Ask them to cut/dremel nails 1x a week or 1x every other week.

Do you really expect the person who you sell your pup to do exactly what you do for all your show prospects (things you have learned in no doubt your YEARS of experience)without telling them how you would like it done?

And for a FABULOUS puppy that turned out nothing like his brother b/c he was in a pet home - how do you know they weren't just at different growing stages at 8 months? How do you know that that puppy would have turned out even if you had kept him?

Lastly, how are we going to get new people into our sport without giving them the chance to own (or co-own) a nice show prospect and teach them how to raise and train him. You didn't just start out with TONS of experience and great dogs; you probably started out with 1 or 2 dogs that someone had to entrust to you; hoping that the show bug you had caught would last.

Share what you know and branch out. If its a really great dog by all means keep him, but if you want to place a show pup please do so too - it takes the right person, but with a little coaching/mentoring from you, his breeder, the person should do just fine and the dog will develop into his potential. Keep in contact frequently. If you just sell a pup and then wait to see it months later (no contact, mentoring, or pictures exchanged) and he isn't what you would like because the pet owner couldn't read your mind to know what to do (in terms of conditioning, weight, coat, and color lines), then you failed yourself, your puppy, and his owner.

Not trying to be argumentative, just my outlook. No flames please, just my ideas to help fabulous owners get stuck on the world of dog shows!

Breeders don't want to "branch out". Why do you think there is so much limited registration with forced neutering/spaying?

I think it all depends on the individual. I have seen well-known breeders bring grossly overweight dogs into the ring; this is not just a phenomenon with “pet” people. Most of my pet pups go into hunting/working homes and they are kept in working condition year-round and are more fit than many dogs I see at shows. In fact, a dog that is truly in a working weight often looks very out of place at shows, especially specialty shows. I have also found that if the pup is placed with an owner who is active themselves, the pup usually stays pretty fit as well. There are good co-owner homes out there!

I'm all for neutering/spaying as well as limited registration. I also promote dogs on co-ownerships so that someone (theoretically) can't just do whatever they please, especially if they aren't very knowledgeable. I'm also for breeding responsibly. But I'm also for allowing others to get a great dog, give it a great life, and have fun with our sport. If the dog happens to be a show prospect, then help the owners to keep them in the condition you want them in. I think it can be a win win situation - you just gotta give them a chance.

"And for a FABULOUS puppy that turned out nothing like his brother b/c he was in a pet home - how do you know they weren't just at different growing stages at 8 months? How do you know that that puppy would have turned out even if you had kept him?"

I strongly second that. You would not know that my girl and her litter sister were littermates, let alone 1st & 2nd pick from the same litter. They are both very much what you would expect, but from different parts of the pedigree.